General Discussion

General DiscussionHow would you lane

How would you lane in General Discussion
зачем я начал поиск

    Against Broodmother mid as Arc Warden?

    I mean... I've realised, that even in theory, the best AW could do is just TP-out and leave the lane.

    Am I wrong?

    Autumnus

      Support rotations???

      葉富森

        with none of your skills working against her idk what to do

        NaturesProphet

          don't pick arc into brood

          Bill Cutting

            When she hits lvl 2 buy a tp and don't ever return to lane again

            зачем я начал поиск

              The problem is not that skills won't work, but also the fact, that if Brood ain't brain damaged, AW is autodead every time he steps away too far from T1, if Brood is just level 3.

              If Brood is level 4-5, then you're gonna die, regardless of your position, everywhere up to T3 tower.

              I've tried analysing the matchup, but it's like I don't see any way an AW, be he even 8k would lane against even a slightly decent Brood.

              one syllable anglo-saxon

                how is it different from any other exclusively singre-target hero with no escapes vs brood

                зачем я начал поиск

                  In fact, I came to conclusion, that there is no hero in Dota, which can WIN a lane against a proper Brood mid.

                  I mean, yea, I've tried analysing non-standard matchups like 1x1 Brood-Sven, Brood-Bristle, Brood-Timbersaw and Brood-Axe, but even then, if it is a strong Brood player, he'll just either farm behind the enemy tower or overfarm the ancients/jungle. Like, clearing two ancient spots and three standard creep camps + farming the lane = 12-13 mins Radiance on average and then you just go out w/Radiance+MoC lvl 12+ or smth and solo kill that Sven/Axe/Bristle.

                  I've tried analysing high-tier matches w/Brood spammers and, unless the enemy supports literally have to stay afk mid or the spammer makes mistakes, or other lanes are lost badly, the game is fucking over.

                  And even, if the supports stay afk middle to atrempt to seek and kill Brood, they may not kill her and just die non-stop, if the spammer is good enough or if they made a few unfortunate mistakes.

                  Like, how would you have played against that guy?

                  https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3304458205

                  Kotato

                    intereting observation. What about legion or qop versus brood?

                    зачем я начал поиск

                      I just want to have a clearer vision on matchups and counters in ideal situations.

                      I need higher-rated player to help me w/that, because I fail to see any 1x1 matchup a proper Brood spammer would lose to.

                      It's just:
                      Can kill hero X? -> Yes -> kill hero X.
                      Can kill hero X? -> No -> fuck off to jungle and farm the lane at the same time, preferably behind the enemy T1, get x3-x4 farm of the guy, who supposedly "counters" you in lane, come out at him 5-6 mins later with Orchid+MoC/Radiance+MoC/Deso+Sabre+MoM/etc.

                      The only way you can possibly win is if you ask at least 2 heroes to come and even then, Brood may just evade the gank or kill you all and then it would get even worse.

                      Find a flaw in my logic.
                      How would you counter one of these no-lifers, who spam Brood for 100s of games in 5-7k?

                      Kotato

                        ^lol arent u one of those "no-lifers, who spam Brood for 100s of games"??

                        Jacked

                          That is such a weird matchup I feel like u would never see this in a game.

                          зачем я начал поиск

                            @Story Time

                            LC
                            The issue: LC kills you/spiders w/Odds, rather tanky.

                            Possible solutions:

                            1) Skill 0-2-3-1, get quelling, no Soul Ring, but Aquila+PT+Drops, outcs her in lane and with such a build you just right-click down LC @lvl 6, then go either Radiance @15-16 mins or Deso+MoM/Sabre/AC @15-17 mins. LC won't do anything to you solo.

                            2) Overfarm the jungle, carefully micro the spiders, not to put them under Odds. Pull small spiders away and only use the big ones to farm.

                            Get fast Radiance+Solar and right-click LC down, microing the spiders away. Won't do anything to you afterwards.

                            3) if you have Lycan, then you just use your big 450 hp spiders to bait out the odds and then kill her with all spiders + Howl. Get OOV, so she won't run away. She can't manfight you either and it under Howl, it doesn't matter whether she has PMS, as the damage would be too high w/Howl.

                            In general, LC is a creep for Brood after the laning stage, unless they have disarm or you're brain damaged and can't micro away the spiders.

                            QoP
                            The issues: blinks away, has 2 AOE spells.

                            Solutions:

                            Bait out the scream w/450 spiders and force her to use her blink, put preemptive webs in her possible blink-away spots or have 2-3 web charges = she has 0 chance to run away and dies against a proper Brood, once Brood hits lvl 4-5.

                            зачем я начал поиск

                              Example of the "overfarm the LC and just kill her scenario":

                              https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3330823263

                              Bart

                                What about meepo? I have seen some games when brood spamers couldn't do anything against pro meepo

                                зачем я начал поиск

                                  @Story Time

                                  Nope, I am just a 4k Broodpicker with barely 200+ games.

                                  That ain't much.
                                  Of course, I can somewhat reliably shit on 3ks and retards, who attempt a dumb counterpicker, but 3-4k is trash and were I properly good, I wouldn't lose a single game to 3ks and would be 5k+ myself.

                                  One of the issues is that I don't play that much solo ranked, but still.

                                  The guys I dumpster 16-0, 17-0 etc. are just super-weak trashcans (mostly).

                                  Este comentário foi editado
                                  Soggy Coochie Enthusiast

                                    What about sniper?

                                    He either last hits far out of range under tower or clear an incoming wave fast with shrapnel, hopefully kill a few spiderlings then rush back to jungle to clear a camp or two, ideally with an MoM

                                    Bungmangler

                                      I was going to say sandking? That guy should do alright. He can stop the insane push power. He can stop the creeps from hitting your tower hard if brood is skipping creeps between towers.

                                      What do you think about that One step?

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                                        @Dog

                                        Sniper is super weak.

                                        You just go under tower and kill him.
                                        You talk about lhing frim under a tower, as if it saves against Brood.

                                        You just dive, because you tank w/spiders.

                                        Shrapnel charges have 55 sec cd, you bait them all out and kill Sniper, if he goes to the jungle, you just finish off his T1/T2 or put two webs on the nearest enemy jungle spots and kill him in his own jungle.

                                        A good Brood just puts wards in the enemy jungle and farms it herself.

                                        In any case, Sniper is a super weak hero vs Brood.

                                        зачем я начал поиск

                                          @Bungmangler

                                          So?

                                          You don't care about him stopping the lane push, you farm behind his tower, get a <10 min Orchid and kill him.

                                          Dust+Orchid = he's 100% dead. Played against such a matchup.

                                          If he is solo and has autistic supports, he just stays vs pushing lane for the first 7 minutes and then dies under his T1.

                                          After you kill him, you just finish up the T1.

                                          Midgame you don't use your spiders all that much, so his outpushing power is kinda irrelevant past 20 mins.

                                          You just get smth like Orchid+Radiance+BKB+Phase, ignore him in the teamfight and just kill his cores.

                                          Lategame you go smth like Blink-Phase-BKB-Bloodthorn-Radiance-Abyssal vs high-mobility picks in general and jump-kill heroes like QoP-SK-Enigma-Puck, etc.

                                          Este comentário foi editado
                                          Bungmangler

                                            Well then consider SK countered.

                                            since your playing brood so much, what hero does give you a ton of trouble? Does any??

                                            I assume you'd need an SB against you so you can't run as easily.

                                            Kotato

                                              @One Step Ahead
                                              did you try playing mid versus cookie with brood?

                                              Shou

                                                It's called a support and they do a thing called rotate
                                                Wtf does brood do lvl 2 or 3 against a dust gank and a stun?

                                                Bart

                                                  You can't kill meepo at lane, also he farms faster than brood. Without bkb he 100% kills you. If you haven't in your team something like wyvern or sven, you can't win against good meepo in any way without much help of team.

                                                  зачем я начал поиск

                                                    I am shit, I am not a 6k Brood abuser. Hello.

                                                    I am just asking, whether one could clarify my conclusion. I am currently just studying replays and trying to get better.

                                                    Question all the matchups, etc.

                                                    I've seen most of them in replays and came to conclusion, that, assuming the Brood is not tilted, doesn't commit much micro/macro mistakes, no hero can win a lane.

                                                    You can only 3-4 man Brood or kill her team, etc.

                                                    Autumnus

                                                      You usually have 2 supports??, why cant one help you?

                                                      зачем я начал поиск

                                                        @Bart

                                                        Recently saw that 13 guy and LG play vs a proper Meepo.

                                                        You can kill a Meepo by baiting out the puffs/nets, but it's hard as fuck, assuming Meepo has a brain.

                                                        You outfarm him in lane, get 1-2 kills on him, if he makes mistakes and then, if he snowballs, you're fucked, but if you snowball and build proper items, then he is.

                                                        Radiance-Abyssal-Skadi-Satanic/Mjolnir/stacked Butterflies/Octarine/BKB/etc.

                                                        If he hexes you, you're fucked though. If you outfarm him somehow, manage to get proper slots Meepo can't do shit, though.

                                                        If he has a fast hex and overfarm, then yes, he's really strong.

                                                        Tbh, I've too little Meepo-Brood games to make conclusions, but I've seen both Brood wins and Meepo wins scenarios.

                                                        зачем я начал поиск

                                                          About supports: you place wards, your own obsevers and sentries. Ideally, you see supports coming, watch the map and just evade them.

                                                          Or you just make them panic and kill them. If you're level 6-7, then any support dies within 2-3 seconds of spiders attacking them.

                                                          зачем я начал поиск

                                                            @Bungmangler

                                                            To me, at this bracket, I lose because:

                                                            1) I make dumb mistakes, hence lack of experience: retarded lane decisions, retarded item-decisions, etc.
                                                            2) I get tilted sometimes and 1) multiplies in expression.

                                                            Only heroes, which actually pose a threat to me atm: Sven, LC and a proper Meepo.

                                                            Sven accumulates net worth too fast and doesn't allow himself to die that often, even if the Sven player is bad.

                                                            LC kills me, because I fail to see her coming, when a really good Brood would, also, she annoys and tilts me ingame as a hero and anger = more missplays = higher chances to lose.

                                                            Meepo - I've already said my word.

                                                            зачем я начал поиск

                                                              @Bungmangler

                                                              To me, at this bracket, I lose because:

                                                              1) I make dumb mistakes, hence lack of experience: retarded lane decisions, retarded item-decisions, etc.
                                                              2) I get tilted sometimes and 1) multiplies in expression.

                                                              Only heroes, which actually pose a threat to me atm: Sven, LC and a proper Meepo.

                                                              Sven accumulates net worth too fast and doesn't allow himself to die that often, even if the Sven player is bad.

                                                              LC kills me, because I fail to see her coming, when a really good Brood would, also, she annoys and tilts me ingame as a hero and anger = more missplays = higher chances to lose.

                                                              Meepo - I've already said my word.