General DiscussionManta on CK

It's a core item if you have god micro skills then i think it's okay

why do i need micro

i just use reality rift and all illusions get teleported and attack the targeted unit

or what do you mean...use them to farm neutrals?

i don't think it is good idea with your poor mana pool

armlet+echo+bkb+heart will finish off most games

It's not a must-have in everygame, but definitely a very good item.

Skadi or SnY for replacement if not going for Manta

Echo Sabre then another stat item like Skadi then you get Manta or else you only get to use it once or twice

ok makes sense icetea, both give good stats for illus.

so manta always AFTER armlet, echo and "stat-item"? the build im using now recommends manta before stat item, have to make my own i guess

heavens halberd any good on him? maybe when you get stomped early and you cant farm the 4k+ gold for most stat items?

Halberd is super situational, but can be viable if you don't have a better Halberd carry on your team.

nice thats actually something i noticed in teamfights, tha after ulti, manta, stun and reality rift i dont have the mana for a second reality rift. which is bad because with illus up 1 reality rift equals 1 dead hero

dont rush a naked manta. your mana pool is as abysmal as svens, maybe worse

consider taking it early tho, if youre against multiple silences in which case it is better to have insufficient mana for that stun instead of running around silenced and kitable

Jesus christ sven doesn't run out of mana after casting 2 spells but CK does
Manta seems okay as 2nd/3rd big item and ofc avoid it against strong AoE memes
BKB seems better against silence and disables imo but I don't play CK that much

Inb4 linken CK new meta

Don't play ck but manta sounds core on him. Don't forget you can use it to dodge and dispel shit which may be good enough a reason to get it

I play ALOT of CK between 3-4K MMR and it really depends on the hero line up. HOnestly I have found most of the time if your vs Sven or PA you Skip it. I buy SE instead. If I am against a Core like Luna or Slark, The Manta Sucks IMHO. I get Huge and just beat the sob's to death. AC/Heart Skadi. Manta is BEST when the enemy team has a lot of disables/slows or has tricky heroes to take down. Allows you to be tricky and get close to them as well as dodge some of the stuns/Slows. My Favorite build is Armlet, Echo, AC, Heart, Skadi, Satanic/Refresher. What works best for CK is to farm up Armlet at 5-8 Minutes, If no immediate kills in teamfights DONT TP. Farm till lvl 9-10 by this time team fights should be popping up or split pushing. That's when you respond. CK will hit soo hard at this point he will 3-4 shot most heroes. 5-6 for a Hero like Axe. If no oppurtunities or push's go Dormant and farm again till lvl 2 in Ultimate. Once you get lvl 2 Ultimate the fun begins. Slit push, Charge into teamfights destroying anything you touch or just go 1v3-4 if you like to YOLO(sometimes you will win if they lack enough disables).

Manta is a must , because only with ulti + manta illusions CK can do full surround with reality rift.

imo manta core for ck is generally an armlet based playstyle where i usually get drums to compliment the yasha ms plus that's the best mana regen i'll get along with tread switchin BUT when you find yourself with echo sabre due to the pace of the game before armlet and it's about 2-4 hit burst and gtfo if they live i'd definitely not go manta, most likely would have urn + medallion + (another blight if no one else has) - enuff mana regen and urn hp charges to get you through a game just picking off heroes or maintaining a push without having to b.

that's when i usually yasha first into solar crest THEN manta or legit just solar crest and either deso or ac depending on wtf youre doing
in my experience manta ck being a core item is more for melting raxes/throne safely with reality rift k/os otherwise definitely prefer being the 2hit wonder while team sieges

shitftinh skys, thats literally how i play him.

at lvl 11 after talent i get the ulti. i tell team to come and invade jungle. usually at least 1 dude comes. as you said at this early stage you can easy solo kill 3 heros.
at this point the snowball and enemy tilt starts

but has no one played ther gamebreaking bfury manta abyssal ck build?

Da fuck shadowblade on ck are u pus.sy ck is tanker

no needs shadowblade or silveredges

ok enough info im
getting confused

what im taking with me;

buy manta after armlet-echo- bkb- stat item (SnY/ Skadi) (bkb optional but most of the time i will get it)

after that depending on game AC or HoT

manta i might get before stat item if they have annoying orchids or lockdown that can prevent me from using ult

Try to avoid getting Manta even if there are silences. That early into the game you shouldn't warrant that much attention because you aren't that impactful yet. Perhaps the enemies would like to lockdown your midlaner first, since he has got more resources to work with.

After you pop Manta you pop ult you throw out your stun and you pull the enemy towards you, after that what? You won't have enough mana to realistically spam your spells to full effect until you and your ponies get kited.

Ofcourse among your team there might be multiple stunners but we'd rather not leave that to chance, yeah?

You tried your best but I guess the enemy somehow find it way to blow your cover and kill you right there and Rubick didn't do much thing to help your team.

i honestly think that bkb is 1000 times better on ck vs silences than manta

Manta is good when they have so many squishy disabling heroes but it's not really a core item. BKB is better in my opinion.

Treads > Armlet > Echo sabre > Manta(Option) > BKB(Optional) > HoT/Eos > MKB is good

only idiots will pick manta when there's nothing to dispel

ck is like meepo but more on physical damage and manta is nice if you got your ultimate on cd

ps. micro your illusion somewhere enemy can't find it then select all units and reality rift the enemy to death

I feel like manta is core no matter what. I guess you could go halberd or s&y replacement, but ck's big items have sucky buildup like heart and possibly ac, skadi, so you need that intermediate item like manta to cruise.

ill be honest, being apart of the trash tier myself, i consider ppl that say manta is a core on ck disregard the fact that pros are amazingly efficient with the item in terms of manta dodging, armlet toggling before manta and leaving one in lane as a juke whilst youre phantasms have armlet on therefore theyll jump on a dummy bait for you to secure a kill easier etc - i would never ever recommend manta if you're planning to use it only when ultiing and reality rifting midst fight, reality is that you enter fight already using them or use them at highground and melt the towers waiting if anyone dares to come close otherwise it's a pretty trash item in terms of dps... most cks use drums as a ms/atkspeed bonus

you don't have to only use it while ult is up, you can farm with it, the illusions do a lot of dmg on a stat hero like ck.

would definitely not use it to farm considering mana points and it'd prolly clear one big camp at best before expiring / most ppl who use manta to farm almost ALWAYS have to have a rad on them or mjollnir static charge the manta illusion and cut a wave, would actually never see any reason to use it to farm and have my actual hero go a different direction as you would with jug, alch etc

edit: also i think the reason why u think it does great damage is cos of the armour reduct with reality rift otherwise the damage would be horrific considering echo sabre don't trigger on em so probably would take half a big camp if ur lucky

u cant get manta too early u cant afford it, but everyone has said it u know that.
the other thing is that sny is dogshit especially since echo exists u shudnt get this item.
manta isn't bad for farming and pushing mid game, once ck has echo sabre, some item like skadi or smth, and some levels he can rlly use manta. u shud never get manta early enough to where the mana is problem imo.
also ck can usually end a game with treads armlet echo heart, then I wud go manta skadi.

+15 Strength+15 Agility+15 Intelligence+30 Attack damage+30 Attack speed Silver Edge

+10 Strength+26 Agility+10 Intelligence+15 Attack speed+10% Movement speed Manta

Why would you even ask why SOMETIMES Silver edge over Manta? You actually grab more Tank, More Mana, and overall more damage. The Break Feature on lets say an Axe, Huskar, Phantom Assasin, CK need me to continue? its Much better than a Manta vs half of these heroes Oh and did I mention Shadow Walk gives you 20% move speed? Manta gives 10%. The ability to walk up to Sven DROP cleave, Throw Chaos Bolt Ult and Rift into a free kill/Push is absurd. Mid teamfight Pa decides FUCK THIS CK.... You quickly Activate SE, Dodge a Shot or two confusing opponentsd maybe make a Support waste a dust only for you to pop out and Break Phantom Assasins Blur. So why SE? Same Price Bracket ~ the same stats in different places and just different scenarios. Overall Manta > SIlver Edge on CK Yes. But in 20% of the games you consider Manta SE will actuallty be better than Manta. Go to some of my recent CK games you will see. mind you tthe last 3-4 were played at like 3.2k but like I said I play between 3-4k. Highest 4.4k No you do not rush the Silver Edge, No you do not buy Silver Edge every game nor do you buy it if you have 2-3 invis heroes on the team already its SITUATIONAL.
Also if you think you cant do SE Here ya go 7k Player going Silver Edge on CK. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/128606707

TO ORIGINAL POSTER~ No you do not buy SnY on Chaos Knight unless your behind and Want to end the game early then it is acceptable but even then I despise it Low synergy with the Hero now that Echosabre is just Better.
LOSING LANE Start with Urn, Drums/PT anything to grab some stats. Then Desperatly farm Armlet. It gives you much needed Sustain keeps you from dying from ganks and just allows Amazing Synergy with the Illusions. Once you Survive Middle Game from behind go BKB so you dont get Locked down and raped. By 40 minutes you will Find yourself at the end of a team fight with 3-4K buy your Item to end the game, AC, Heart, SE, Manta all great choices.
If your WINNING LANE AGAINST Favourable line up Go for PT/Armlet/Echo What you build after this start in middle game is COMPLETELY UP TO YOU. Look at thier heroes. Ask yourself... How do I kill this hero. If they got stuff you need to hit over and over and over or they have alot of disables/slows Go Manta to dodge/dispel. If you have to kill a bunch of squishies go AC, youd be surprised what an AC at 25 min allows you to do. Its disgusting, Especially for towers. If you are vs a Monster Carry like Medusa, Slark, Luna, You have to bring themd own to your lvl. you Go for Skadi. Got a Particular line up of shit heroes Huskar, PA, Axe, Sven Silver Edge is your Boy.

To wrap it up there are two things CK needs and ONLY 2. Stats and Attack Speed. Anything else is Just icing on the cake. The rest you use to adapt.

Wow, the CK hype is real
So conclusion, Manta is late core?

Dude, Please climb to 3k fast and i am waiting you to beat me

cant wait to play against a 2 13 treant

or shadowblade deso octarine core aghanims wraith king hahahah

the way you play you're probably in SEA so it ain't happening anyway

Edit: Ofc its SEA :)

and with your 45% ranked winrate i dont need to climb, we can meet in 2 months with my 1k account

Here's my guide power thread boots armlet manta then bkb and taras
no echo is fine

most of the time i think i dont get manta at all on ck
iirc last time i played ck i went drums armlet tarrasq and it worked great

thanks but i dont need a guide from 2k sea player aka 0.5k eu west.

echo sabre in combination with armlet lets you hit like a truck early when other cores still farm, and gives you mana regen which is badly needed.

drums seems ok as well i might try it, its so cheap now

XD manta is a first item must buy for ck

no jokes

if you like you can fit in occasional armlet before manta but i approach this hero differently and there is no place for an armlet tho it's super effective

up to u

look at u shadowblade on ck? fucking coward

YES DONT BUY ARMLET ON CK, THE ITEM
THE HEROS ULT DEPENDS ON

it only gives focking 20 strenght and 20 damage to your illusions. for gods sake pls

as some people way higher then me or mr flat 2k SEA player stated, silver edge is sometimes good, and you regularly see it on guides from 5k+ players in the hero section on dotabuff.

but hey i guess the SEA monkey taht thinks shadowblade is a "coward" item because you go invis knows better. kys

'Only 20 strength'
Seriously?

sarcasm

If you never seen my wk buiId , you are idiots for sure .i had never been to 1k dude. You will get lowered ur mmr soon . Haha

Can not even climb to 3k ?

ok thats it have a nice day

I like Manta for the MS and AS, the extra illusions and the dispel is just an added bonus for me. For me it's core, but don't listen to the fresh into 3k scrub, listen to guys like IceTea and Cookie 😅

Chillax Bros. Manta is a great item on CK. I is like every item/Hero combination situational. It allows for the Rift Surround, Epic Dodges COMBOES with Armlet. its just not a rush Item. You don't go Powertreads Manta.