most of that isnt even invoker knowledge
its just like 4kish level of game sense
and yep, 2k games are harder because you have to solocarry the game literally every time. however its easier to solo carry 2k than 4k :P
"most of that isnt even invoker knowledge"
It is and it isn't, you didn't read my post.
"and yep, 2k games are harder because you have to solocarry the game literally every time. however its easier to solo carry 2k than 4k :P"
both 1k and 2k games are literally easiest shit ever, and if I wanted I could've escaped it long time ago. This is the reason why I didn't want any low mmr answer, because I never said it's hard to escape 1k and 2k..
I'm not an invoker player but i can play a decent invoker. One thing to add though, during early game it's easy to use spells, later during late game especially on teamfights, my mind just went blurry i don't know what spell to use anymore. Sometimes i just click randomly and pray that some decent spells come out.
Also, I forgot to add that I have little to no impact with quas wex Invoker unless I have a team that'll disable enemy team.
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im not sure how viable it is now but usually when i played invoker i contributed only when i saw some personal gains in that, i didnt give a fuck about team doing stupid things and just splitpushed and riced
but i saw some people going boots midas blink, running around and killing people so i guess that's viable too. i havent played invo in a rather long time
you usually want to stand on the edge of teamfights
"but if they have pudge, I'm afraid I won't be able to Invoke fast Ghost Walk..." well then umm.. git gud? usually enemies will get dust on you but you can still throw a tornado or ice wall or whatever
i mean this isn't really an issue after getting a base 6second invoke cd from like 22 or something
Well just use your superior 4k game sense to farm really fast and go for solo kills. If u don't get kills in 2k then your team will feed while you are afk not applying any pressure. Then suddenly enemy is farmed and u don't understand why.
~ I don't know when to fight and when to splitpush
- Depends on what heroes they have/what their cooldowns are (bkbs, global silence, etc). Also it's a lot on what playstyle you like. I normally play a utility invoker, but I know others who play full split push invoker and do fine with that as well.
~ I don't know what's the best way to inititate, and what to do if I screw my combo...
- If you're playing quas wex, I like to wait for them to initiate, then tornado>emp>cold snap all the enemy's who jumped in. Quas exort usually initiates with a meteor combo of some sort while keeping alacrity on yourself.
~ I have problems deciding what to keep on my Invoked list, like, I know I'm supposed to use Alacrity + Forge to farm and push out lanes, but if they have pudge, I'm afraid I won't be able to Invoke fast Ghost Walk...
- You'll normally have a force staff/euls/blink to use to bide time to invoke a spell. If not, you can invoke tornado/icewall to slow the enemy down.
why'd you go from shred to vertoxity?
Salza, thank you for your input.
I changed my Nickname long time ago. I just didn;t like Shred anymore, it looked way too agressive and kiddish.
So a few quick notes I have that can improve your game:
1: Quas / Wex or Exort? I usually look at our lineup first and then their lineup. Does your team have a reliable stun for guaranteed sunstrikes? Or any spells for that matter (slark pounce, lc duel, void chrono, cm frostbite, etc) If you do, Exort is strong because you can start the game with alot of kills and not have to leave mid. Then as far as their lineup, do they have alot of melee / strength heroes? or squishy supports / carries that you can pick off with cold snap / forge spirits? If they have a strong early game and/or strength heroes will small mana pools, Quas / Wex is usually good because your EMP will drain low mana pool heroes quite easily and your cold snap with be at a high level to "perma" stun your target. There's more factors, but that's just a quick guide to choosing.
2. Items I really use cookie cutter builds for most games. 90% of the time I go exort, my builds is like this: Midas, Travels, Euls, Blink, Aghs - then luxury whatever. With Quas / Wex I like to be active on the map early, so sometimes I'll skip midas and go Aquila, Phase Boots, Force staff, Euls, Aghs.
As far as combos, positioning, etc, that will get better with practice. I have 4 accounts with probably 1,500 Invoker games played and still find myself getting better.
Some random notes:
-First items I buy at start - Ring of Basilius, Branch, Faerie Fire - this will spend every penny you start with (obviously you want to get pooled tangoes from your supports) And then with my first 600 or so gold, I'll courier my boots, 2-3 scrolls of town portal, and 3-4 clarities for my first courier. No I dont send the boots then the consumables, I send the consumables with my boots the first courier use. So by 5-6 minutes you should have your boots and clarities and TP scrolls. This isn't an Invoker tip but a mid lane tip in general ALWAYS HAVE TP SCROLLS. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. and with invoker being mana dependent early, the 200 you spend on clarities will be worth it. Then after you courier those first items, then start working on your midas.
- Try to stay mid as long as possible. Even if you guys are losing the side lanes, don't TP if you cant absolutely save the lane. Invoker is level dependent so he needs solo exp. If you have a kill or two secured, then by all means teleport. But if it's a lost cause, don't do it. The 2-5 minutes you will be lingering around the side lanes is precious time to be farming mid. A good Invoker can literally take a losing game and turn it around by himself.
- No items are bad for Invoker. He can literally use any item in the game and make it useful. I don't know if you can see this link like I can, but if you click this and it shows what I think it does, you'll see I got the item Radiance on Invoker in 28 matches with an 80% win rate. (Ghostwalk , cold snap + radiance proc) Basically, there's a million ways to play him and there's no right or wrong answer.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/239443553/items?hero=invoker&metric=used
That's all I can think of for now, if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.
Why wud u go aquila on qw invoker that sounds so trash. It makes sense on qe because of forge spirits but wtf do u need it for in qw?
well i didnt mean its hard to escape 2k lol, you can easily solo win every 2k game if you apply the mentality that you must solo win this game without any help from your teammates.
Just watch youtube and practice a lot. Play bots to get the combo's you want then try it in the game, you won't win it all but at least you learning. Oh and when you playing QE just get your sunstrikes on point.
If you split pushing with Forge+Alacrity you should already have ghost walk set up so when you need to escape you just invoke it.
3kish Invoker player - most games with the hero.
My thoughts:
First of all, always go BoT on a q/e invoker; sometimes get phase on q/w.
Midas in the 8-12 minute range. Agh's by 24 (at latest).
In between, get clarities/raindrops (as needed - that mana boost is amazing)/RoA/midas/drums (situational for me)/Aghs
~ "I don't know when to fight and when to splitpush"
That depends entirely on what the rest of your team is doing. If everyone is afk farming jungle and lanes, gg. If your carry needs some early farm, and space to make that happen, go push out lanes, force TP's. If your team is causing disturbances on their own, go find an empty lane, push towers down and hit the jungle. Getting 125-50 cs pre 20 minutes should be easy, so long as you don't butcher the laning phase. If opposing mid EVER leaves lane, turn on your RoA and punish that tower.
4-0-4 into 4-4-7 into 4-7-7 is still standard q/e build imo.
~ I have no idea how to position myself as an Invoker and I don't know in what order I'm supposed to use my spells.
Pretty much depends on team comp, and whether you go q/w or q/e.
If you go q/w, your goal is to roam with your team. They will have strong damage output already, and you are there simply to control the pace of the game - keeping it fast and dangerous. Roam with your team (early gem is sometimes great) while ghosted, use tornado/ice wall/ cold snap to keep whoever you found in 1 area, and EMP for obvious reasons (sealing off a kill, or just draining everyone's mana). I recently watched a pro game where they did this strat and was extremely telling as to how to play the Q/W invoker. IF I find the replay of that game I will post it.
If you go q/e, your goal is to do massive damage. This often requires a great initiator (until you have enough levels + aghs to combo everything yourself). Basically, stay behind everyone, use your SS, CM, Blast to do massive damage + wipe team. Best positions are on high ground where other team can't see that you are there, or just behind your supports + initiator.
Order you use your spells depends upon what order they are needed. That knowledge comes with experience.
Ice wall can be used to initiate, escape, or keep opponents from escaping a fight. You just need to have the game awareness to see for what purpose it will be most useful.
~ Every time I try to TP and help my team I'm way too late. They either die too early or they simply kill them before I even help..
Often, people will rage at me, but I just stick to mid and my 2 jungle camps unless I know 100% I can turn a fight. Invoker requires that early XP and gold to have a good midgame. If that TP turns into a death, or you don't even get a kill, you just missed out on a level or 2, and 10-20 cs. Just do your best to hit sun strikes on ganks.
~ I don't know what's the best way to inititate, and what to do if I screw my combo...
i often tease opponents with a EMP-tornado. the cooldows are pretty low, and are extremely efficient at draining mana - might even force a bkb or 2.
if you have to do it all yourself, EMP - tornado, queue meteor + blast, use when they land. then ice wall, ss, cold snap.
if you mess up combo, just hang back, use the spells you have left. Alacrity, cs, forge spirits, ice wall. Control the fight, take out their supports.
~ I have problems deciding what to keep on my Invoked list, like, I know I'm supposed to use Alacrity + Forge to farm and push out lanes, but if they have pudge, I'm afraid I won't be able to Invoke fast Ghost Walk...
Best thing for this is game sense. If I am pushing out a lane, I keep an eye on the minimap (not just to defend yourself, but to hit those sun strikes!!!). If I am concerned at getting caught out, you just need to figure out for yourself what you need to do. Often, ghost into blink is 100% useful.
If its a pudge, I often keep cold snap in queue and just turn on him when he tries to ult me.
Other heroes, deafening blast and ice wall is almost a guarenteed escape without excessive stuns.
As far as talents - I might skip the first one until a couple levels later depending on how badly I need the HP / damage.
Second talent choice - the XP boost is great if you need to end within 25 minutes or so (for the snowball advantage). However, even then, I like the +2 forge spirits. Better pushing + farming potential.
3rd choice - I almost always get stats - never have seen a player get the AS.
4th choice depends on how the game is going.
Advice of a sub 50% winrate Invoker, but he is my favorite hero also - and best of luck to you!
I'm not a pro invoker player but when you wanna master a hero try to play as many rounds as possible on the same hero like me, you surely get better.
Also, try first pick or not to last pick make u grow. XD
watch miracle playing invoker videos. learn how to use sunstrike effectively. exort-quas invoker is the best invoker for early game, cold snap + sunstrike combo = ez kills if you can use it properly. last thing, buy your aghanim fast and train tornado+emp+meteor+blast combo. in some cases like legion duel or void chrono, remeber to not use tornado. and the golden rule, never get caught, if you can't do it you have to do q+q+w+r+d as fast as you can :) good luck.
It took me many games to do it right, now my trash Invoker works in 5k.
You have to practice every spell and it's time to use quick cast. You do it right when you don't have to think anymore how to invoke a certain spell. After that practice some basic 2-spell-combos like tornado + emp or meteor and blast. Then practice the 4-spell-combo tornado + emp + meteor + blast. Also be aware of your cooldowns, if those 4 spells are on cooldown you better don't fight or you have to make something work with your other spells if you can't avoid a fight. A good advice from spunki is that you don't get the 2nd forge spirit rather take the extra exp talent. Also if you know they have a bkb you can be ready for the 4-spell-combo and just throw tornado and emp, now they can decide if they want to waste their bkb or lose almost all of their mana and if they use bkb just wait out the duration and then throw your meteor + blast
Invoker is never terrible. "nerfs" and "meta" heroes are a mindfuck. Like Nature's Prophet right now is "nerfed" but if a pro picked him in a few pro matches all of a sudden he goes from nerfed to meta. It doesn't matter if Invoker is nerfed or buffed, he will always have the same win rate.
Invoker is picked in pro games nigga, but he's received heavy nerfs over and over now. Look at his winrate my nigga
if you wanna spectate a game, im about to play a few invoker games. this isnt my in game account, i am 4.3k if that means anything
@twiztid that was so fucking retarded it hurt. If a professional picked natures profit then they would usually lose and thats cuz the hero sucks. Sure pub meta is slightly dictates by pro meta, but u dont see dark seer haunting ur pubs and he is incredibly popular in pros. You see fucking centaur and even lycan winning pubs but they see only mediocre (cent) to no (lycan) play. Meta is decided by what works the best given the current patch environment. Pros cant change that.
I pretty much insta pick invoker in every solo game I play at normal skill, I have 60% winrate with patch 7.0+, 55% overall, this account with almost 300 games. I almost always play Q/E in 7.0, fuck wex voker, boring, useless when enemy supports have arcane boots sub 10 minutes. Exort can work with almost any team comp with disablers, it's so easy to kill early game with the enemy not having spell immunity. You should watch Annajang's exort invoker.
I'm not an amazing Invoker but I'll tell you a secret.
When using your chaos meteor don't cast it on top of their heads. you should cast meatball some distance from the enemy (200-300 units i dont remember) it will help maximize the damage.
@tony you have 56%winrate invo. And you get 60% from 7.0 and if your enemy is magic immune you can just sunstrike them. Anyway some sunstike setup would be nice but you also need practice blind sunstrike for 😎
Invoker literally is a trash Hero u just need early silence And gank him he Will dead like potato
you need play invoker a thousand times
By the ways page one is closed.
gay and noob commend on page two
Im gay so yeah. I cant even win a 1vs9 game with him where i literally can do anything i want feelsbadman
I'd practice 3 spell combo first and apply the 4k mentality. Useful 3 spells combo after aghs would be,
Tornado, sunstrike, ice wall/coldsnap.
Tornado, meteor/EMP, defeaning blast/icewall/coldsnap.
Tornado, icewall, coldsnap (and right click if he has no escape low hp etc)
Euls, sunstrike, meteor, defeaning blast.
Euls, EMP, Icewall, coldsnap.
Euls, EMP, meteor, defeaning blast.
Euls, sunstrike, icewall, forge spirit and right click with coldsnap after.
Euls, SS, alacrity, cold snap.
these are easy combos, after that learn to cast 4 spell combos like
tornado, emp, meteor, defeaning blast. etc etc.
Spells before aghs especially low levels are mana intensive because of invoke. watch your mana all the time.
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https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2981433169
I'm so fucking awful, but, I REALLY love the hero and I don't know how to get better because I lack the basics.
Also, it seems that my awful decision making literally peaks out with this hero(more than with others).
My bigest problems I'm facing rightnow:
~ I don't know when to fight and when to splitpush
~ I have no idea how to position myself as an Invoker and I don't know in what order I'm supposed to use my spells.
~ Every time I try to TP and help my team I'm way too late. They either die too early or they simply kill them before I even help..
~ I don't know what's the best way to inititate, and what to do if I screw my combo...
~ I have problems deciding what to keep on my Invoked list, like, I know I'm supposed to use Alacrity + Forge to farm and push out lanes, but if they have pudge, I'm afraid I won't be able to Invoke fast Ghost Walk...
Please read everything and answer only if you're noticibly better than me at Invoker. I'd appriciate if I get answers from at least 4.5k+ MMR players, but I'd take advices from anyone at the end of the day.
What I need is a list on things to work on, since I'm literally starting from ZERO, so I have no idea how to play this guy.
Funny enough, I have easier time playing Invoker in 3900-4000 MMR range since I can get away with my awful play, and sometimes just pushing out lanes or using simple combos is enough.
Thank you in advance.