no, you still get battlefury, you just don't pick AM into deathball lineups, actually you NEVER picked am into deathball lineups in first place, you don't PRAY that the game doesn't end at 18 minutes, you just don't pick AM every game
You don't pick AM against a deathballing strat, so no
AM is even better than before tbh, more item choices and larger map, making him harder to catch even after intensive warding by the enemy team
Shrine helps with turtling btw
also you have 4 (FOUR!) ancient camps that you can farm and the lack of stacks doesn't hurt a hero that rotates both jungles and split pushes, so AM got a massive buff actually
Farming pattern is still the same
The only disadvantage he has right now compared to 6.88 is the inability to take stats with skill point tbh (rip 1-1-1-1 build)
If you think AM has been buffed this version you are sadly mistaken, the hero is pretty much total trash this version compared to last version where he was a super-situational pick at best. I'm pretty sure you play him the same way as the hero has always been played, if you want to roleplay as some midgame fighter you are better off picking a different hero.
am not talking about AM being a bad hero in this meta.. i am just asking about whats better in actual meta...
also, deathball strat is much more stronger than before
@WeiB shrines just help lasting longer.. u still can force the enemy team to remain inside the base without farming properly.. or taking them out with heroes like pudge, vengefull or batrider..
so.. BY NOW
supporting turtling BF "old build"
aghs treants are still re...
Bws
WeiB
supporting early fighting "new meta build"
Sarllo
1IceTea
CUTNPASTE
If Battlefury on AM is really dead, that'd be good. Well, not entirely, but I don't think it was good how you basically always had to build it on him. Even Spectre is more flexible with itembuilds.
Sure you could go for the "old" Vlads/Manta build, but that basically never happened and also was much less efficient. (I say that even though I like the build)
the new prevalence of treant kinda fucks with AM too, scouting him out and being able to root for 4.5s if you get his manta off first is huge
it feels like if you can get going, draining the enemy jungle has a much higher impact, it's just that it's much easier to get run over. especially with the prevalence of luna, monkey, and necrophos (deathball / high tempo heroes)
im 99% sure BF will always be the build on AM barring more major changes. it synergizes too well with your ability to shove lanes aggressively while also greatly alleviating regen issues
Let's contextualize this into the early game, where getting the ball rolling for the Deathball is most improtant, and how Shrines affect the strat.
Deathball relies on winning teamfights early on to take towers. Rinse and repeat. Shrines mean the team that is supposed to be at a disadvantage can recuperate much faster since Shrines are closer to their towers. The sieging team will have to travel a longer way in order to reach their Shrine, since they are the one who mobilized. During which the defending team can take advantage of the enemy's recovering time. They can either take a tower of their own, or try to catch out the enemies with roundabout ganks while team is en route to Shrine.
I don't see two of those guys saying BF AM is dead
Cut said if you want to fight 24/7, don't pick AM (indirectly saying no to fighting AM)
icetea was flaming my profile picture and didn't contribute anything to the discussion
Maelstrom is a decent replacement to BF if you want to fight early
How about VG rush without boots into brown boots and BF ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Who the fuck started that bullsht anyway motherfcking piece of shit I hope he dies out of cancer
@ Bws
Normal skill trend lol...
They rush VG and start farming camps lul!!
And get Bf in like 30-35 min!!
So fun to play against!!
Why is echo so bad? I'd agree with suboptimal, but it seems ok. Good stats + mana Regen and helps catch people. Also significantly cheaper.
It still helps with farming, but allows you to contribute more to the fight than a kill steal with Mana Void. I thought that since it takes longer for jungle creeps to spawn clearing the entire jungle won't be as demanding as before. Also with the new terrain changes blinking should now be spammed more often due to inaccessibility of efficient walking patterns.
the only problem with am battlefury is that you just want to farm for the first 30 min. I would say it's not dead because its still the best way to play him but am is probably out of the meta, along with any other hero that wants 30 min of alone time in the jungle
AM is not dead nor is battlefury.
The larger map and increased jungle camps and bounty runes being conviently in his farm path increases his gpm by like 100-200.
The shrines help his team defend which further helps AM.
A good AM player is much better in this patch. A bad one is much worse because you can't just afk farm your own jungle anymore.
You can be in fighting shape 25 min in. PT BF Vlad's Manta and even Abyssal. There is too much gold on map now. All you need to do is farm your jungle on even minutes and enemy jungle on odd minutes and cut some waves, steal runes nd stuff.
am can be fine if your team is a hardcore 4p1 lineup to create space so you can eat up the entire dire and radiant map and get super big and end in 25-30min with 4slotted with aegis
if u have some other space eating core prepare to lose
why people like Bws think that AM is a "bad early fighter".. he have HUGE dmg, HUGE mana burn, HUGE magic resistance, HUGE MOBILITY even just walking (315 starting MS).. with only a stupid vanguard he can tank basically ALMOST any hero in the game...
same happen to pa in 6.8.. old PA players sticks to BF and fail.. new ones stick to deso+vlads and win..
also, just look the verified players games.. the longest one poorly reach 35min.. even having LATE HC like luna...
the old meta dies with 7.00.. we have to get used to this new meta.. AFK is no viable anymore IMO..
he isn't a bad fighter. antimage is an amazing fighter. that's why he is able to shit on most lanes.
but 10-20 minutes he needs to farm, and it is not worth the chance of him dying to get some kills. plus 10-20 mins or so nukes start to hurt a lot and he is still lacking HP even more-so now that the retard frog took away stats.
@7 0 0 hahaha not retarded action.. stats make sven 1-4-4, luna 4-4-1 and AM 1-4-1 very cancerous.. well, echo sabre, vanguard and silver edge/manta can sustain his lack of hp IMO
i make this thread cuz i believe that understanding the meta can win more games than playing like a VHS with kilter strats..
also, thats why i believe that team with great players like NaVi cant manage to reach even the semifinal of any competition, they still draft the heroes who make then great.. heroes like chen, echantress, puck or bane doesnt work like before
Because of the no-stats update Ultimate Orb is a very universal staple item now.
Hell, even building Skadi on Crystal Maiden should be a thing now.
stats are what made those heroes viable - not cancerous.
heroes that rely on stats early game have been nerfed heavily. luckily antimage has other buffs to keep him relevant.
Is vlads maelstrom suitable since the cost is roughly the same as a bfury or is it just not viable?
No, maelstrom is not even close to as much push as bf, and whenever u proc lightning u dont proc mana burn so it sucks dick. Tbh the biggest problem with am is that his huge power peak lasts only a short amount of time. U want to farm rlly hard first 25-30 min putting you lower than ur mid hero in power. After that at around 35-40 min when he starts rlly snowballing hard he is the strongest hero on the map. But even like 5-10 min later at like 45-50 min in he starts falling off unless the entire enemy team is int or they have like 1 stun or some dumb shit. Am is not that strong late game unless he utterly starves the enemy jungle, on = farm levels there r a good amount of heroes who can beat him. Mana becomes a less valubale resource for the enemy carry the later the game goes, so burning it isnt as effective, unless again ur against a pugna mid, silence safe or something. He really depends on abusing his power spikes when he hits abyssal and butterfly or some shit, cuz otherwise he starts dropping off.
Wait, maelstrom proc doesnt proc mana burn? That changes things, i had no idea.
Does it work the same way with Mjollnir? Is there a list of which orb effects cancel mana burn, and which ones stack.
AFAIK for now, with the new updates, skadi, deso, diffusal should stack with mana burn right?
whenever u proc lightning u dont proc mana burn so it sucks dick.
this is not true at all
AFAIK for now, with the new updates, skadi, deso, diffusal should stack with mana burn right?
diffusal doesn't stack with another feedback source, so no
" between 20 and 30 min.. (i am 3k player, so dont look at my profile, i am talking about 6k games, i have been watching a lot"
all of this is just wrong.
So diffusal doesn't work with mana burn, but maelstrom/mjollnir does work with it?
Yeah I thought so after trying it in a bot match. However, if game is going to shit, vlads maelstrom could be a decent backup over bfury
Not ideal, but then again you dont want AM in your team when your early game isnt going well
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hi, in 7.00 the game average duration is in between 20 and 30 min.. (i am 3k player, so dont look at my profile, i am talking about 6k games, i have been watching a lot)... whats better, buy a battle fury and pray for the game not to end in the next 15 min (assuming u where free and buy bf in 12-14min) or just buy cheap thing like vanguard/vlads/basher/scepter/manta and engage with ur team?
now.. in my own 7.00 experience.. only snowball (ursa, slark, monkey, juggernaut) pick have a high succes rate.. late game pick is SOOO risky...
also.. the euls everywhere have something to do with new root mechanic?