no
blink blademail bkb is core every single game, at least it was before the blademail rework
you would be better off just jungling if you know how to. 7-8 min dagger and dueling mid with the dagger will wreck most mids if there isn't an immediate tp reaction, plus you can duel before dagger if you really want to
every single game the exact same items in the exact same order
blink -> boots + upgrade -> blademail -> bkb
u can go blademail with brown boots if you have to hit some crucial timing (killing antimage mostly, morph before linken if hes poor or you see the lance)
I used to max q but you can stay out on the map much longer with max w + e
yeah i guess in competent games you really need bkb. blademail can hurt your dmg output though if you're snowballing or planning to duel nukers. like i did the item build i mentioned (farm lane and get kills with q and occasional duel, still get treads vg blink by min 12 or so)and had those items in op and daedalus with 150+ duel dmg by min 27, it really wrecked them from there (duel the batrider in 1 second gg)
but yeah ill think of rushing blink/blademail for some duel if needed
anyway, i know items... any gameplay tips or shit for lc?
1) BKB is core because no matter what innate abilities the enemy has, they can eventually just get an euls and you're completely screwed if you do not have the luxury of carefully chosing targets to duel.
2) Your boot choices can vary a lot, the only boots you really don't want are tranquils because you're constantly hitting shit, you can leave brown boots to go for travels later, treads give you ok attack speed, stats and ability to conserve some mana, phase are awesome for chasing and continously hitting people while your ult is down, travels are... self-explanatory I guess. Arcanes are actually ok if you're playing some messed up caster version of LC and nobody on your team has any kind of way to replenish mana, and you're pushing early, but it is extremely rare that you'll want to go for arcanes.
3) Blademail works great against glass canon carries, with armor stacking and armor reduction, so going for things like deso, solar crest and AC is actually pretty worthwhile, and also notice that it'll give you a greater mana pool
4) If you're getting rekt early for whatever reason and can't actually deal enough physical damage, get a medallion, you're a good solar crest carrier anyway, though you should not be getting solar crest if you are THE CARRY on the team because the item will eventually fall off and you'll be slot starved, medallion is still good because it gives you okay mana regen which you kinda need to stay on the map for longer periods of time
5) You can go phase boots windlace in jungle instead of rushing blink at 7th minute if the opponents lack hard disables and escape abilities, otherwise go for blink boots blademail, but keep in mind that windlace and phase boots will give you 477 movement speed and max movement speed if you use OO
6) Malestrom is dogshit, you're supposed to gank people all the time and maelstrom really does not help with it, you already farm reasonibly fast with just talon, mind that mjollnir might seem great on paper because it fixes your dogshit attack speed, and lets you use the active to wreck people in AoE but the reality is, it's too expensive for what it does, and what it does not (it does not make you tankier and more survivable, which a hero that disables himself needs)
7) LC is a great desolator carrier because if you're not disabled, desolator actually makes you tankier since you lifesteal a fuckton more, considering your lifesteal depends on how much damage you deal, and not how fast you attack (one more reminder why mjollnir is dogshit), plus deso will let you wreck towers if you have to go 1v9
8) Vanguard is a waste of an item slot on LC, only get it if you have to transition into abyssal for whatever reason later, but at that point you might want to start at basher anyway, early game it's okay to go around with a PMS though
9) Daedalus is actually counterproductive if you want to end earlier because desolator will give you more damage towards buildings, and you do not win by killing people a second faster, if you're stomping, but rather by destroying the enemy ancient, so just get a desolator if you're tempted to get a daedalus because you're running over people too hard
10) At some point the enemy team might start building linkens(es), and you might think you're screwed. If there are typical linkens carriers on the enemy team which you HAVE to duel and nobody else can kill because you lack lockdown, and your team is too dogshit to actually help you break the linkens, you have your choice of going halberd, orchid/bloodthorn and abyssal, halberd is the cheapest linkens breaker that has some correlation with what your hero does, though unlike solar crest that has removable evasion, your damage output might suffer if you have to focus and reflect damage to glass canon carries
11) Armlet is okay but if you're good you'll quickly grow out of it anyway
12) Shadow Blade is an okay option but it's shit for going highground which is what you want to eventually do as legion, so even if you have sb you might have to go blink at some point, so it's best to skip it most games, unless you REALLY REALLY need break from silver edge
As far as skill build goes, maxing OO is kinda overhyped considering you'll hardly have mana to utilize it to a great extent if you don't have something like KOTL, soul ring or early arcanes on your supports, or a bottle. If you max OO also get a bottle or some form of mana regen, and you kinda want your passive maxed out to increase your dps, as well as PTA, both in order to make you more survivable. As far as damage goes, going PTA lvl 4 into blink to an enemy is probably more DPS than just nuking them with OO and attacking, which is what you'd have to do if you haven't properly leveled PTA, in order to be mana efficient (OO + PTA + DUEL is a fuckton of mana for early game, so you want to pick your spell wisely). Against some lanes, however, OO is waaaaaaaay better than anything PTA could give you, so try to get a feel for what you actually need. If you're up against phoenix and undying, go for PTA since it lets you destroy the egg/tombstone very fast if you are properly positioned.
If you're against NP or Brood or an obvious five man push strat, go for OO over everything else since it grants you great depush and opens up possibilities to wreck the enemy team, but keep in mind you should not be jungling if you expect that kind of pressure, better go and dominate a lane.
Also keep in mind that LC jungle is awesome with strong lanes, but if you go to jungle leaving weak laners to go fuck themselves, you might be losing games because the very carries you chose to counter might be having free farm and be impossible to kill for you later. Make sure lanes are not gonna get rekt in 3 seconds because you chose to jungle.
isn maestrom good for duels when you attack fast with moment of courage? i mean there is a lot of chance to proc the chain lightning, and also item gives you attack speed which is nice
and tell me is treads vanguard bad or no? cause it gives you good regen and with treadswitching you can stay on the map pretty much always, and maybe even dive cause you have lots of health
daedalus is really cost efficient with all that duel dmg though, and someone else might already have dsolator
also bkb doesnt help against euls at all, they just eul the victim you're dueling and you're just as fucked.
Maelstrom is too expensive for what it does (aka not enough) and you delay your core items to get it, or you get it too late when it is no longer relevant. You have a 120 attack speed steroid, at that point attack speed has diminishing returns compared to damage or -armor. While maelstrom works well with attack speed steroids, you need to rethink your priorities here, maelstrom does not do much to leverage your actual right click damage, and if you want raw attack speed, getting a moon shard is far superior, not to mention AC is basically core on the hero (not really but it is really good).
Treads vanguard is bad because you could have had better items at that point. You NEED a blink unless you are playing against complete retards, or have a tiny who can toss you around, you WANT blademail which both provides damage and armor, and you would just end up getting a late vanguard if you are getting it at all, which is stupid, and only done if building into abyssal.
You do not need hp regen on legion, if you do, you are playing it completely wrong. You can lifesteal a fuckton while farming or pushing if you know how to aggro creeps. Tread switching is fine, but for mobility purposes phase boots are great because you are already fast as fuck, and even if you hit one hero with OO you will have max movement speed with phase. LC has trouble getting kited after duel, and if you want to attack people afterwards, get phase boots. Treads are good for switching, hp and attack speed, but they do not do anything if you cannot hit your targets to begin with. As I said, you already have a fuckton of attack speed if you use PTA well.
Daedalus is cost efficient but you should probably go for blood thorn if you are going that route, it provides great stats in general, gives you another disable, a linkens breaker, and so on. So I would never go daedalus on LC over blood thorn, the price difference is there, but if you are stomping that much gold will not really make much difference.
I think what you need to realize is that it is not just the question of whether a certain item is good on the hero, rather you must realize that you are trading something for it. Going blinkless treads vanguard is fucking stupid, for example, because you had 2k gold but did not get a blink, which would actually make you an useful hero. Just surviving does not do jack shit for legion, you need to both deal damage, and be in position to deal damage, and vanguard does not help with that much. Besides, you are already going to build armor, so vanguard is quickly going to be pretty useless, at the same time you could have had blademail or blink, which are core items on the hero.
If you are really poor and keep dying all the time, go medallion instead, you will not feel bad for selling it later, if you are not building into Solar Crest, and it can make some duels possible, that would otherwise be completely impossible, since you get a desolator worth of minus armor on the enemy, and coupled with some allies you might score a kill on their carry.
i mean really early treads vanguard if you are ahead. like min 7 already 1500 hp and with vanguard block, noone can fight you. You get mobility from OO so you can duel anyway. Sure though, blink is extremely useful. But, with treads-blink, you can actually lose your duel if the enemies focus you with their rightclick.
I mean if you don't want an abyssal then by all means forgo the vanguard. But If you have free farm and your mid is doing fine, if might even be better this way (blink after vg).
By going VG you delay the blink, yes, but the durability gain is useful. especially if you want to abuse the max OO (enemies crowded near you -> taking damage).
also damage block doesn't fall off, it actually scales well with the armor gain.
Just saying, not building a strength hero as a glasscannon doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.
(also bkb doesnt help against euls at all, they just eul the victim you're dueling and you're just as fucked.)
ok.
the more i know now.
gotta try it.
eul my fucking friend.
god he has over 2k matches...
"i mean really early treads vanguard if you are ahead. like min 7 already 1500 hp and with vanguard block, noone can fight you."
Great, and you can't fight anyone, because you spent 2k gold on a defensive item. Great. Fucking. Job.
"You get mobility from OO so you can duel anyway."
Unless, you know, they have stuns.
"Sure though, blink is extremely useful. But, with treads-blink, you can actually lose your duel if the enemies focus you with their rightclick."
If you jump into three heroes alone with allies far away, you deserve to lose the duel, vanguard or no vanguard. Otherwise, you should only have trouble dueling ursa, enchantress and lifestealer early on, everyone else is pretty much fair game, especially with allies.
"I mean if you don't want an abyssal then by all means forgo the vanguard. But If you have free farm and your mid is doing fine, if might even be better this way (blink after vg)."
But what exactly are you trying to accomplish with vanguard? It's a defensive item. Legion is an aggressive hero. Vanguard literally does jack shit for the hero because she's going to lifesteal back any damage anyway, you don't need regen for farming, HP bonus is pitiful compared to possible EHP you would get by building actual armor items, and it will fall off too quickly against any competent carry player.
"By going VG you delay the blink, yes, but the durability gain is useful."
You will get less duels if you go vanguard before blink. Because you can't close distance (against competent people).
"especially if you want to abuse the max OO (enemies crowded near you -> taking damage).
also damage block doesn't fall off, it actually scales well with the armor gain."
It does fall off, because it's applied before armor reduction, it's flat reduction compared to % reduction from armor. Past 15 minutes, a platemail beats vanguard in most cases and it builds into useful items.
"Just saying, not building a strength hero as a glasscannon doesn't seem like that bad of an idea."
How is treads blink a glass canon? You're not fucking TA, you have good base strength, good strength gain, you have durability due to your lifesteal, and you build armor to be able to scale your lifesteal much better. Like, there's no goddamn scenario in which you go vanguard instead of blademail, because blademail actually gives you more useful stats. Int is useful to you, and so are armor and damage, and then the active allows you to play more aggressively, forcing people to take damage if they want to contest the duel (even if you are winning, blademail is still decent, because you'll have more armor and HP than opponents anyway).
There's a reason why top 10 legion players all have similar builds, and it has to do with the fact that those builds are effective, efficient, true and tried, and that's why nobody will buy your malestrom/vanguard build and pretty naive reasoning behind it, because if you actually have experience with the hero and have at any point played against at least semi-competent people, you'll know why you don't do stupid shit but build smart instead. I have done a lot of stupid shit while I played against incredibly bad players (1k) but I would not suggest that to anyone because I am aware of why it worked. If your advice only works against terrible players, it's simply bad advice.
The only time I would buy a mjollnir on LC is if I got mega'd but even then I'd prefer battlefury because once you have 350 bonus damaeg from duels, the cleave is more powerful than lightning procs.
Yeah sorry i completely forgot that, i dont rly play heros that build an euls.
Vanguard is bad only cause lc doesnt normally need an abyssal (so its not the best way to use the gold damage-wise), I'm sure that if you are indeed planning to make an abyssal, you can afford to build vanguard... agreed with maelstrom, even though there are trending builds that use it.
Vanguard is the only item (apart from linkens) that LC can use well,early, that gives you health regen... So it's something, I gues niche choice in games when you can either get it early, or buy a blink and go base to heal after skirmish.
If you're not killing their whole base in 20 seconds your lc build sucks. deso ac is where it's at, u can kill towers through backdoor regen waow OPopie OSfrog
This kid thinks he is hot shit. Boi listen to people with more experience than u ffs. There r 5 things a hero needs. Mobility, mana, durability, damage, and disable. Legion has disable and damage with duel, more damage and survivability with PTA, and more survivability and dmg with counterattack, plus some mobility (but not much) plus dmg with OO. The reason blink is so core is because it fills in something legion desperately lacks, mobility. Since she doesnt require too much mana past mid game, its almost not an issue, so an early mana item is usually built like soul ring or bottle. If u feel like rlly barebonesing it u cud just go basi, but its probably not enough. Legion is already survivable with a shitload of lifesteal, so the best way to complement it is armor and minus armor. If u need more disable, purchase abyssal. If u need dmg, dont build for it because guess what all ur skills are dmg. The only real dmg item legion shud build is deso cuz minus armor makes her harder to kill as well. And if ur lacking mobility after blink somehow, the sny is a potential item as well.
^what exactly do you mean "listen to people with more experience than u ffs"? only things im suggesting other than your everyday textbook lc are MAYBE early (pre blink, or immediately after blink) vanguard if you want abyssal and are far ahead, and MAYBE daedalus if you need to kill heroes very fast. That seems like almost an ordinary build.
I'm aware i steamrolled my enemy with this build only because i'm more skilled than they are, but it was one of easiest stomps in my life tbh.
I mean u have less matches than the people here. They r more experienced than u. Any build without early blink on lc is weird.
For lc, almost every item after blink blademail is situational. Usually u will go deso but sometimes against heroes like slark, weaver, am, and other slippery heroes an early abyssal may be needed. Sometimes ull play agaist ss and lion and need that bkb. Maybe itll be qe invoker and u want ac to counter forge spirit minus armor, then bkb. Whatever. The point being that blink blademail is core for a reason. Nice armor incredibly needed mobility, and gr8 early DMG before u have too many duels.
yea but for like 15 mins you run around with 1300 or so health, which has it's downsides.
I don't like jungling as lc. prefer offlane and pressure. sure you might not farm as fast, but your pre-7-min kill potential is still good, and you're bringing attention away from your mid/safe.
whether jungling lc is better than laning lc probably depends on the draft.
bkb is absolutely core on this hero im 100% sure
half the time i buy a refresher just to have 2x bkb 2x blink 2x duel lol
vanguard is just going to delay key items by 2200 so you play badly and not get punished
if you go jungle make sure they don't pick an actual offlaner becaus ethen your team is fucked. Legion is a pos 3 that is played n the jugle so he can farm, like Axe, oyu just abandon the offlane and make sure ypour team picks a 4 and a 5 for your safe lane, your mid and you.
and going 0 damage items i have no difficulty 100-0ing people in duel unless im dueling medusa or centaur lol
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thinking to start playing this hero, anyone can give tips regarding playstyle?
treads vanguard before blink is good item choice? maelstrom?daedalus?