I can't deal with sven as riki. Its a lot of bad luck but his lane is mostly ungankable because any sort of harassment might be followed with his stun and rikis death. Also hitting with 20 dmg through warcry armor is not fun at all.
I like PhaseBoots on Riki, but then, I get Aquila most of the time, to compensate agi I'm missing from PhaseBoots. Also, you get a bit of STR and 10DMG. So coinsider getting Aquila if you go Phase.
Also, I'd get PhaseBoots over PT on him only if I can afford them 3 or 4 mins into the game and I'd start to roam asap.
Work on your diffusal timings. So many times I got my diffusal blade too late and it kinda delayed my impact..
I like getting diffusal blade+pt+stick+orb for @ 20 mins.. Sooner? Better!
Instead of malestorm, coinsider EchoSabre. I really belive it's way better item on him, even tho malestorm is decent for his ultimate, I'm aware.
It's not that hard to lane against Sven+Omni as long as you buy sentries at start, qualing blade or tanges to deward as soon as you can.
What I like to do is, I place a sentry ward when I get to offlane, and then when he wants to place his own, I deward it asap with my qualing blade/tangoes.
Then you will have one more, to secure the next attempt. I think dewarding the lane from detection is very important in order to win...
Also, try to focus on deying the creeps. It's really easy, since all you have to do is attack them from behind. :->
Btw, small hint: I don't think it's worth it to get level 2 blink.. I'd go invis/smoke/invis/blink, since you won't need your blink anytime soon if you deward lane as I told you.
But we play differently you play dual offlane riki while i play roaming riki. When i start i go mid, block mid wave creep and deward mid sentry. Then harass midlaner so he gets pissed. Afterward it really depends, sometimes when ez kill i go safe lane, sometimes jungle, sometimes stay offlane.
Also i don't skill blink all games, sometimes i go smoke, its all depend on which heroes are laning and which hero are in enemy team. Play 50 games straight and you will see riki is not mmr booster as you perceive him now biased on lucky win streak.
If you keep playing on offlane without ganking a lot you might end up in a game where all lanes are lost which you could avoid by roaming. Perfect example here might be a game when you just sit on lane vs anti mage who goes vanguard first, there is basically no way to to deal any dmg to him, anytime you get revealed your mana perish and he takes quite a chunk of your HP down.
I was playing offlane riki before meta for roaming appeared on pubs, its viable but in sample of 100 games i guess roam rikor will be more benefitial. If you want to dual offlane anyway there are much better heroes for that unless riki counters enemy draft by a huge margin.
or you can get yasha instead of echo sabre/maelstrom for the single target dps boost xD not to mention the movement speed which is extremely useful (ez juke with phase boots)
however considering rikis low durability you might want basher or maybe vanguard instead
also 2nd'ed on aquila phase boots, early game it gives u lots of kill potential
not saying maelstrom is bad,but it's only useful in some wombocombo where you get multiple heroes set up for your ultimate.
vanguard is for regen (i pretty much never buy it, i do only when im going to finish abyssal soon), basher is for keeping people in your ultimate. echo sabre is just doublehit and slow (it lacks agi so building echo sabre only hurts your overall dps), that item is useless for ultimate.
it can be good but just not my style i guess.
i literally laugh my ass off when ppl buy tranquils echo sabre first item, when you can have phase diffusal and do like triple the dmg
"But we play differently you play dual offlane riki while i play roaming riki. When i start i go mid, block mid wave creep and deward mid sentry. Then harass midlaner so he gets pissed. Afterward it really depends, sometimes when ez kill i go safe lane, sometimes jungle, sometimes stay offlane."
Even if we play differently, it doesn't mean you're supposed to get different items. Hero benefits from fast diffusal blade and Echo Sabre.
"Also i don't skill blink all games, sometimes i go smoke, its all depend on which heroes are laning and which hero are in enemy team. Play 50 games straight and you will see riki is not mmr booster as you perceive him now biased on lucky win streak."
I don't perceive him as MMR booster, I perceive him as an easy way out of 3k if you know what are you doing. I'm not lucky, you can't say someone is lucky if he has 80% winrate for past 20 games on him.
A lot of people already plays Riki in high MMR pubs, he's amazing. Not saying he'll bring you tons of MMR if you suck, but he's solid pick most of the time.
"If you keep playing on offlane without ganking a lot you might end up in a game where all lanes are lost which you could avoid by roaming. Perfect example here might be a game when you just sit on lane vs anti mage who goes vanguard first, there is basically no way to to deal any dmg to him, anytime you get revealed your mana perish and he takes quite a chunk of your HP down."
I am not playing offlane riki in which I sit and leech XP. I do gank mid after I get lvl 3 and orb of venom/ boots.
If you're against antimage, and you're loosing your lane, you're doing something wrong. You can easily deny him creeps, and if you deward the offlane as I told you and have a support with you(just offlane buddy basically) chances he'll get fucked are huge actually.
This doesn't mean you're supposed to stay static tho, ganking mid/jungle is always good, ofc.
"I was playing offlane riki before meta for roaming appeared on pubs, its viable but in sample of 100 games i guess roam rikor will be more benefitial. If you want to dual offlane anyway there are much better heroes for that unless riki counters enemy draft by a huge margin"
The best thing you can do as Riki is combination of roam/offlane if you ask me, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Then again, it's not like I have 20 games on Riki. I do have fairly decent amount of games on him..
@ Black EYES
Sorry mate, you're wrong on this one. While Yasha is decent pick-up on him, echo-sabre is a must have item after you get your diffusal.
Vanguard on the other hand is just stupid(no excuses), and Basher is lategame item you get after you finish your Diffusal&Echo...
And, btw, Echo Sabre is not just slow, it's actually double backstab and bunch of HP/Mana regen which Riki needs. Not to mention you get a bit of attack damage aswell. It's great item overall on him, actually, way better than Sange and Yasha.
sange and yasha isn't that good, i agree. manta is muuuch better. but you probably won't get enough gold as a roaming riki to afford building in a way which would utilize manta the best, so keeping it as a yasha is good enough.
honestly, i'd rather pick up an ultimate orb and a raindrop over echo sabre. same health, more damage, cheaper, and builds into useful stuff (both skadi and manta are really good on riki).
but it depends on the playstyle. echo sabre is good for bursting squishies, but, as i said, it ruins your overall dps.
i can see why you'd value the double attack alright, i used to build it all the time when i was 1-2k myself (not saying its a noob item, im well aware that it's really good for some situations).
but i dont like echo sabre anymore because it's extremely inefficient if you want to deal good damage with your ultimate, and not just rightclick.
as an item, it offers much more in total, yeah. but what else does it offer over other items of the cost? I mean, just take a look at desolator (800 gold more than echo sabre).
yeah, so we'll both agree that item choice depends entirely on your own playstyle. Echo Sabre pickup isn't seen much more often than Yasha or Basher, so yeah.
people in ns will get sentries but by the time they do its too late and riki is already out of control. The biggest reason to complain abt riki is smokescreen. Just go puck + riki and dream coil in smokescreen and riki ulti.
Fyi echo sabre slow is kinda bugged with riki ulti in that itll proc 2x for some reason sometimes. Plus riki needs hp. Any early game item riki buys i think shud have a strength component. Urn, echo, maybe drums. Also echo sabre isnt just the double attack its the slow which traps in smokescreen longer
urn is pretty much a must buy item (not my opinion, i myself tend to skip it for faster phase aquila diffusal power spike). also riki doesn't NEED strength as bad as you claim cause he's a) invisible and b) his ult makes him invulnerable. urn and basher (after diffusal yasha) is often enough
if you're getting hit a lot chances are you are doing something bad.
One of my previous roaming riki games ended with 16 0 score so i doubt roaming riki got gold problems. Before this meta i was offlane riki mosty, now its way more worthly to be roamer as riki
Abyssal is actually very legit on Riki , it gives me great lockdown , regen , and puts him over that crucial threshold where you cannot be bursted easy before you are able to ult . Plus usually by the time you abyssal you are out of diffussal charges.
Sure abyssal is good but idk why you would open with vanguard. Riki doesn't need to block shit, he sneaks up on people and smokes, uses ult if he's in trouble, shouldn't be taking right clicks at all.
Yasha is quite amazing on riki but s&y and manta are both kinda meh unless you have to dispel something. Maybe casual yasha is the way to go, riki doesn't fill on slots that quickly since he is not a farmer. Boots, echo, diffusal, yasha, tp, then finish a bit item like butter or abyssal and game is probably over.
You don't need the basher as much while you still have your diffussal charges . Where as the regen and hp pool is put to use immediately plus vanguard a little cheaper than basher . Some games I go cmbasher before vg just depends on the game . For instance try having diffussal boots of choice in inventory plus yasha wich is about same price as vg you will see how much more the vg helps you compared to the yasha I've done it several times and the vg helped me way more than the yasha every time .
Plus damage block from vg and armor and movement speed from yasha , anyway both items are close to same price and both get upgraded to better items and both have nice build ups so I say it's fair to compare them .
The thing is, ive almost died as riki to random aoe. Of course its preventable but so many times a dusted riki has ubder 1k health 25 min into the game. At least the first few items shud give hp i think. I like getting skadi too gives ult a big slow, but thats later.
I dont like getting aquila or pms on riki i feel like he is slot starved early. U have aquila, phase, pms, a counter sentry, orb of venom, and a tp. Ez six slot.
^ I think at 1k mmr you would be best served playing him in the offlane cuz I doubt your allies would take advantage of the space you made as a roaming Riki
Pos 1 supported slardar against solo offlane riki is a hard matchup, one of my hardest riki games even. But still won.
I actually dropped from almost 4.4k to almost 3.4k :D
I can't deal with sven as riki. Its a lot of bad luck but his lane is mostly ungankable because any sort of harassment might be followed with his stun and rikis death. Also hitting with 20 dmg through warcry armor is not fun at all.
I like PhaseBoots on Riki, but then, I get Aquila most of the time, to compensate agi I'm missing from PhaseBoots. Also, you get a bit of STR and 10DMG. So coinsider getting Aquila if you go Phase.
Also, I'd get PhaseBoots over PT on him only if I can afford them 3 or 4 mins into the game and I'd start to roam asap.
Work on your diffusal timings. So many times I got my diffusal blade too late and it kinda delayed my impact..
I like getting diffusal blade+pt+stick+orb for @ 20 mins.. Sooner? Better!
Instead of malestorm, coinsider EchoSabre. I really belive it's way better item on him, even tho malestorm is decent for his ultimate, I'm aware.
It's not that hard to lane against Sven+Omni as long as you buy sentries at start, qualing blade or tanges to deward as soon as you can.
What I like to do is, I place a sentry ward when I get to offlane, and then when he wants to place his own, I deward it asap with my qualing blade/tangoes.
Then you will have one more, to secure the next attempt. I think dewarding the lane from detection is very important in order to win...
Also, try to focus on deying the creeps. It's really easy, since all you have to do is attack them from behind. :->
Btw, small hint: I don't think it's worth it to get level 2 blink.. I'd go invis/smoke/invis/blink, since you won't need your blink anytime soon if you deward lane as I told you.
But we play differently you play dual offlane riki while i play roaming riki. When i start i go mid, block mid wave creep and deward mid sentry. Then harass midlaner so he gets pissed. Afterward it really depends, sometimes when ez kill i go safe lane, sometimes jungle, sometimes stay offlane.
Also i don't skill blink all games, sometimes i go smoke, its all depend on which heroes are laning and which hero are in enemy team. Play 50 games straight and you will see riki is not mmr booster as you perceive him now biased on lucky win streak.
If you keep playing on offlane without ganking a lot you might end up in a game where all lanes are lost which you could avoid by roaming. Perfect example here might be a game when you just sit on lane vs anti mage who goes vanguard first, there is basically no way to to deal any dmg to him, anytime you get revealed your mana perish and he takes quite a chunk of your HP down.
I was playing offlane riki before meta for roaming appeared on pubs, its viable but in sample of 100 games i guess roam rikor will be more benefitial. If you want to dual offlane anyway there are much better heroes for that unless riki counters enemy draft by a huge margin.
or you can get yasha instead of echo sabre/maelstrom for the single target dps boost xD not to mention the movement speed which is extremely useful (ez juke with phase boots)
however considering rikis low durability you might want basher or maybe vanguard instead
also 2nd'ed on aquila phase boots, early game it gives u lots of kill potential
not saying maelstrom is bad,but it's only useful in some wombocombo where you get multiple heroes set up for your ultimate.
real talk!
good lord why would you buy basher or vanguard and skip echo sabre
stop
vanguard is for regen (i pretty much never buy it, i do only when im going to finish abyssal soon), basher is for keeping people in your ultimate. echo sabre is just doublehit and slow (it lacks agi so building echo sabre only hurts your overall dps), that item is useless for ultimate.
it can be good but just not my style i guess.
i literally laugh my ass off when ppl buy tranquils echo sabre first item, when you can have phase diffusal and do like triple the dmg
"But we play differently you play dual offlane riki while i play roaming riki. When i start i go mid, block mid wave creep and deward mid sentry. Then harass midlaner so he gets pissed. Afterward it really depends, sometimes when ez kill i go safe lane, sometimes jungle, sometimes stay offlane."
Even if we play differently, it doesn't mean you're supposed to get different items. Hero benefits from fast diffusal blade and Echo Sabre.
"Also i don't skill blink all games, sometimes i go smoke, its all depend on which heroes are laning and which hero are in enemy team. Play 50 games straight and you will see riki is not mmr booster as you perceive him now biased on lucky win streak."
I don't perceive him as MMR booster, I perceive him as an easy way out of 3k if you know what are you doing. I'm not lucky, you can't say someone is lucky if he has 80% winrate for past 20 games on him.
A lot of people already plays Riki in high MMR pubs, he's amazing. Not saying he'll bring you tons of MMR if you suck, but he's solid pick most of the time.
"If you keep playing on offlane without ganking a lot you might end up in a game where all lanes are lost which you could avoid by roaming. Perfect example here might be a game when you just sit on lane vs anti mage who goes vanguard first, there is basically no way to to deal any dmg to him, anytime you get revealed your mana perish and he takes quite a chunk of your HP down."
I am not playing offlane riki in which I sit and leech XP. I do gank mid after I get lvl 3 and orb of venom/ boots.
If you're against antimage, and you're loosing your lane, you're doing something wrong. You can easily deny him creeps, and if you deward the offlane as I told you and have a support with you(just offlane buddy basically) chances he'll get fucked are huge actually.
This doesn't mean you're supposed to stay static tho, ganking mid/jungle is always good, ofc.
"I was playing offlane riki before meta for roaming appeared on pubs, its viable but in sample of 100 games i guess roam rikor will be more benefitial. If you want to dual offlane anyway there are much better heroes for that unless riki counters enemy draft by a huge margin"
The best thing you can do as Riki is combination of roam/offlane if you ask me, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Then again, it's not like I have 20 games on Riki. I do have fairly decent amount of games on him..
@ Black EYES
Sorry mate, you're wrong on this one. While Yasha is decent pick-up on him, echo-sabre is a must have item after you get your diffusal.
Vanguard on the other hand is just stupid(no excuses), and Basher is lategame item you get after you finish your Diffusal&Echo...
And, btw, Echo Sabre is not just slow, it's actually double backstab and bunch of HP/Mana regen which Riki needs. Not to mention you get a bit of attack damage aswell. It's great item overall on him, actually, way better than Sange and Yasha.
sange and yasha isn't that good, i agree. manta is muuuch better. but you probably won't get enough gold as a roaming riki to afford building in a way which would utilize manta the best, so keeping it as a yasha is good enough.
honestly, i'd rather pick up an ultimate orb and a raindrop over echo sabre. same health, more damage, cheaper, and builds into useful stuff (both skadi and manta are really good on riki).
but it depends on the playstyle. echo sabre is good for bursting squishies, but, as i said, it ruins your overall dps.
What can I say, then build an ultimate orb mate.
I guess you're just not there yet, to see why Echo Sabre is amazing on him.
i can see why you'd value the double attack alright, i used to build it all the time when i was 1-2k myself (not saying its a noob item, im well aware that it's really good for some situations).
but i dont like echo sabre anymore because it's extremely inefficient if you want to deal good damage with your ultimate, and not just rightclick.
As I said, it offers much, much more than just a double attack. Overall it's a great item on him, Slark and Sven.
as an item, it offers much more in total, yeah. but what else does it offer over other items of the cost? I mean, just take a look at desolator (800 gold more than echo sabre).
800 gold is not a joke, it's not really small amount of money in Dota.
Not to mention you can't compare Echo Sabre and Desolator. Both items are good, but on a different heroes.
I wonder why after looking at top 10 riki, i find more desolators than echo sabres. However, these items work really well together, so theres that.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/riki/guides
This is the way to go imo
yeah, so we'll both agree that item choice depends entirely on your own playstyle. Echo Sabre pickup isn't seen much more often than Yasha or Basher, so yeah.
Pretty much.
people in ns will get sentries but by the time they do its too late and riki is already out of control. The biggest reason to complain abt riki is smokescreen. Just go puck + riki and dream coil in smokescreen and riki ulti.
Fyi echo sabre slow is kinda bugged with riki ulti in that itll proc 2x for some reason sometimes. Plus riki needs hp. Any early game item riki buys i think shud have a strength component. Urn, echo, maybe drums. Also echo sabre isnt just the double attack its the slow which traps in smokescreen longer
Ultimate orb is also a worse build up
Urn is actually good(saw from daddys) game
urn is pretty much a must buy item (not my opinion, i myself tend to skip it for faster phase aquila diffusal power spike). also riki doesn't NEED strength as bad as you claim cause he's a) invisible and b) his ult makes him invulnerable. urn and basher (after diffusal yasha) is often enough
if you're getting hit a lot chances are you are doing something bad.
One of my previous roaming riki games ended with 16 0 score so i doubt roaming riki got gold problems. Before this meta i was offlane riki mosty, now its way more worthly to be roamer as riki
Abyssal is actually very legit on Riki , it gives me great lockdown , regen , and puts him over that crucial threshold where you cannot be bursted easy before you are able to ult . Plus usually by the time you abyssal you are out of diffussal charges.
Sure abyssal is good but idk why you would open with vanguard. Riki doesn't need to block shit, he sneaks up on people and smokes, uses ult if he's in trouble, shouldn't be taking right clicks at all.
Yasha is quite amazing on riki but s&y and manta are both kinda meh unless you have to dispel something. Maybe casual yasha is the way to go, riki doesn't fill on slots that quickly since he is not a farmer. Boots, echo, diffusal, yasha, tp, then finish a bit item like butter or abyssal and game is probably over.
dont want to spread heresy here, but manta is amazing for dps if you build agility items on riki
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/144084132/matches?date=3month&hero=riki&enjoyment=any&timezone=America%2FChicago
You don't need the basher as much while you still have your diffussal charges . Where as the regen and hp pool is put to use immediately plus vanguard a little cheaper than basher . Some games I go cmbasher before vg just depends on the game . For instance try having diffussal boots of choice in inventory plus yasha wich is about same price as vg you will see how much more the vg helps you compared to the yasha I've done it several times and the vg helped me way more than the yasha every time .
it helps you in a different way. you cant even compare yasha to vanguard. 200 health, 8 regen VS 31 AS, 32 dmg.
Plus damage block from vg and armor and movement speed from yasha , anyway both items are close to same price and both get upgraded to better items and both have nice build ups so I say it's fair to compare them .
CLQ put riki in the trash can with timbersaw dagon, not a whole lot that you can do about that
The thing is, ive almost died as riki to random aoe. Of course its preventable but so many times a dusted riki has ubder 1k health 25 min into the game. At least the first few items shud give hp i think. I like getting skadi too gives ult a big slow, but thats later.
I dont like getting aquila or pms on riki i feel like he is slot starved early. U have aquila, phase, pms, a counter sentry, orb of venom, and a tp. Ez six slot.
@filth yeah, but they serve completely different purpose. it's like saying you'd rather have a cheap car over a top-tier gaming pc.
I want to try this. any tips about when to pick? how to play? im at 1k mmr now. so could u give some of ur advice.?
^ I think at 1k mmr you would be best served playing him in the offlane cuz I doubt your allies would take advantage of the space you made as a roaming Riki
Can vouch for this, even at 3k and low 4k.