if ur 6k sup that means you do understand how do you play your lane correctly, and if you play at a carry that doesn't use much farming patterns(aka dunno, wk sven morph), he should be able to play it decently.
i've climbed to 6k as (fp) pos5 picker, but dropped too quickly bc i tilted quite hard + irl problems w/e
Yea but most people would have in their thousands of games to get to 6k played a lot of core and that seems to be a requisite to learning how to play a lane correctly. That's why I'm wondering if there are support players who never ever played core, and climbed to 6k.
It would love to hear that persons experience.
From my experience - 3-4k I did go by supporting only, now im 4,3k - i don't play support because too many account buyers and it's hard to win when some 2k guy is carry or mid, so i try to do it myself. I win more now than I used with playing support.
Edit: Morph definetly uses them watched how arteezy does it looks insane.
dunno
before some really retarded patches, new ones are more like "you afk for 10 minutes, you get a good streak and then you win" or "you fp drow sk and you win", it doesn't matter what are you doing on pos4/pos5 atm because if ur core is not good enough to use the space you're giving it's literally pointless.
i think im not the one who should say anything about dota atm, im retiring from this game, but thats the example of typical 5k clown fiesta game
because woo, if your cores can't push buttons and play dota you might have a chance to comeback as 3th carry player.
theres literally moon distance in between <6k pubs and 6.5-7k ones.
it doesnt amtter if you didn't played cores at all, as i said.
because you're observing people you're playing with, their playstyles and other things, and according to the situations that are happening on your games you just learn how to position yourself properly for every other player that might use their blink or smth, predict some retarded things but that's not hte point
the point is - how long will you hold that "i want 6k by playing supports" attitude?
will you be able to hold the all toxicity of cis retards and eu monkeys?
Lmao. I find it hard to believe that he is a 6k support looking at his profile, but that's not the point of this topic! So did u really get there without playing core?
What u say seems a bit contradictory since if u got to 6k by playing support, u wouldn't have the mentality that u need good cores...
And do u really not know about farming patterns?
(^im banned till the next week, so i can't post from my main)
sven farming pattern - you push your lane, you farm hardcamp, you stack with dominator, if your lane isnt pushed yet you still farm jungle and comeback for more creeps on the lane if your lane is pushed. you get sabre and you clear stacks, you end the game, woo nice farming pattern very interesting game.
morph - you hold your lane as much as possible, farm sides, you get dragonlance and then you just play splitpush dota 1x9, woo, very interesting
Ok so u do know about farming patterns, but I think what u mean to say is that u find it uninteresting.
it matters a lot against some heroes like am, since if you don't do anything to am after he gets bf(12-14 min), he'll just faceroll at min. 30 your entire team with 30k netwoth.
but most of the time people are just playing like a clowns, especially past 2 patches.
me included, even if i was doing mistakes that changed nothing.
if you know where he(am) gonna be in next 3-4 seconds, you'll have ~90% kill chance, if you got more than 1 stun, same with all heroes that can clear jungle in a matter of seconds.
its possible to get to 5k playing support only. Yes, I've done it twice out of arrogance. Would I do it again? Fuck no. I spent a year doing that and realized I was playing Dota MM in impossible mode. Now that I'm 5.3k+, I can say that it is MUCH easier to gain MMR in the 4k~5.5k range by playing core instead of support. You could buy all the space in the world for your cores, but they'll just throw it away anyways later on in the game. It's the most aggravating thing ever. If you play core and know how the game runs, you could climb much more easily and with less stress.
@zaffre but I imagine u did play a decent amount of core to learn the basics of how to win lane, etc? I'm thinking more of ppl who never played carry a single time and reach say 5-6k playing support. Would they automatically be good at core say, at 1k mmr lower? U would definitely have superior game knowledge but mayb ur lane mechanics and farming patterns are shit, u know?
How would u learn those things if u never play carry?
Yes. And if u read mine I'm specifically asking about the rare case where core is literally almost never played. I just wann know his experience and whether he thinks playing a core hero to learn fundamentals is requisite to playing high level dota, or it is possible to not learn them the way cores do, and just pick it up playing support.
you analyze people you're playing with.
you git gud as core.
you start to understand what cores want from you.
you start to play better as sup.
rinse and repeat.
If you could somehow reach 5~6k only playing support without ever playing core, then you can definitely carry at 1k mmr. Yes, you'd need to play carry a bit to learn lane mechanics and farming patterns.
if you want to be a good support you should at least know how you carry. That way you understand when a certain hero comes online and how much farm he needs. If you should spend all your time stacking, or if you can assist in ganks etc. or if you have to babysit your core/carry till he comes online. Thats my POV. But then again i'm a 1.7k nub, what do i know.
Well you still need to know how to carry since at some point someone will instapick 2 supports and you'll be fucked.
You cannot play support only at 5k+. At that mmr, the mmr disparity in the team starts to get bigger. Sometimes you're the highest and you'll just lose if you play support.
I think he can..
Even Dota 2 said so..
(play support to be better carry and play carry to be better support)..
I think there is no big mechanical problem, because I believe mostly 4k already have good/decent mechanic skill even 3k(not godly mechanical skill) let alone 5-6k player even if he/she is support..
And I believe the 5-6k support player can win easily in low mmr games as carry.. positioning beat speed and games understanding really can change the outcome of low mmr games..
And about stressed thing is depend on the person, some people get really mad at noob carry(cant capitalize space) some people get really mad at noob support(cant make space)..
For me personally I get really mad more when I play carry and get noob supp.. So I play carry only in party..
Still try to 5k with supp though.. Stuck at around 4,5 lul
Pretty much what Zaffre said.
I play a lot of Chen recently 4.5-4.7 k. I usually go offlane with another mate to harass the shiet out of enemy safe lane. I usually get T1 by the min 5 mark and 2-3 kills.
I make loads of space, but ususally the graph looks like here - take a look.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2677380758
20 min in game 10k network advantage. All towers t1 and t2 taken, also meele racks on mid. Enemies typing "gg pls end" Then 30 k disadvantage cos our cores go solo and die 1 by 1. 380 gpm pa with bf. Its really frustrating for a support player when u rekt the entire enemy team just in pair with your offlaner, in early game just to lose later.
We rekt Slark + Omni + lich lane = total cancer, just with leschrack who is out of meta. Its really frustrating and makes me wanna quit this game.
I think playing supports that have high skill cap and are hard to deal with are a nice choice:
- Chen
- Io - i know a guy that spammed it to 7k from 4.5k
- Oracle
- Visage
- Omni
Its definetly worth learning one of those first 4.
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The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if it is possible?
Or if playing as a core - to understand and get good at all the dota fundamentals - is a perquisite to going above 5k.
What I mean by this is if u never played core in your life and I mean literally never picked a carry, never practiced farming patterns and controlling lane equilibrium, could u still somehow pick these skills up as a support spammer and still climb to 5-6k?
Since I observe that every 6k support would have similar skill in this area (lane equilibrium, last hitting, trading hits efficiently or laning in general) to their carries, maybe only slightly poorer due to lack of practice. So I ask myself if they would have had to play a lot of core to get good at the fundamentals before transitioning to support? Or is it possible to just spam support and eventually u will understand this concepts? Like i have no doubt that a 6k support would be an excellent 4k core because of superior game knowledge. But what if that 6k support never played core in his life? How would he know how to play as a core? Or would he know how to play from observing his carries?