General Discussionmid lesh

isnt mid lesh best lesh actually? imo hes better as midlaner comparing to farming on safe.

Mid is risky since he doesn't have a way to scape, but as running a core lesh is riisky anyway (well, in previous patches at least, not sure about the current one) and to work, it needs both gold and exp, I guess mid lesh is best lesh.

I don't know if he can win against classic mid laners like storm/qop/sf. I would go double bracers/bottle first instead of null/arcanes. I think he's only like 800 hp level 7-9 with ur build so he will most likely die to a SF he you don't out-harass him. Qop and Storm will just eat him level 7 onwards for sure. Heck even mid slark can win against him, unless u spam like crazy.

Slasher made a video a while ago during 6.83 saying that a guy made a guide(i believe slasher was just supporting his ideas) that even lesh offlane can be good if its a 1v1 matchup. He actually beat a slark pre 6 with a 2-3 or 3-2 build. The build is basically lvling q and w then max stats while getting ult at 6-11-16 and finishing with e at 25 since its mostly useless.

He would go for early tanking item like bracer and then strength treads into bloodstone then bkb. Lesh farms crazy fast just like sf so a 10-15 min bloodstone will get you tanky enough to snowball.

Now in 6.84 E is now buffed so it might be worth getting but still stat points seems legit on him because survivability = dmg for lesh.

@Hmongolian
i dont think lesh loses to melee mids actually, his stun actually makes laning very easy against them and if u want to commit to winning the lane going the stun + edict skill tree is always an option.

Also i find it easy to lane against high cast point heroes like sf who i can just box out with block advantage knowing that he cant fight me without eating a stun

Lightning Storm and Edict Scales much better than split earth.

Mid lesh should imo..

1. Max lightning Storm first, with uphill vision its ridiculous lane control, harass/zoning and farm
2. One value point in Split Earth will suffice early on, since the dmg doesn't scale as well as edict or lightning storm.
3. Max Edict after lightning
4. Skill Ult at lvl 8

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1439302303

MID LESH LIKE I LINKED U ON SKYPE

wow was that a mid lesh vs. slark? I'm guessing slark didn't have rotations to help him before level 7?

Mid lesh
Don't waste him on safelane.

I will add my 2 cents

First off, lightning is waaaaaay safer build than edict and it is very spammable from long range!
However Edict is very powerful too. And should be abused early too push towers

His ult lvl 1 is very Efficient Damage-Manawise

Lvl 1 Ult gives whooping 100 DPS for 20 mana per second and an activation cost of 70. This means over the course of 5 seconds u deal 500 damage and pay only 170 mana. (3:1~ )
Leveling the ulti decreases the efficiency by a whole lot! Only level it if you either really have the mana or need the damage.

(for 5 seconds
LVL 2: 290 mana for 650 damage (2,3:1~)
LVL 2: 410 mana for 800 (2:1~))

Melee matchups + TA are really easy and you can always opt to max Edict and go for lightning later.

Item-wise still old stuff and octarine is a viable 4-6th item unless you are raping. BS/Aghs/BKB/Blink are still the go to items

thanks arka, i agree with your points about stun edict to punish melee heroes; the damage per mana efficiency of pulse was something i didnt think of.

however, isnt Octarine a good 2nd item? i feel like his main issue after mana problems is tankiblity, i feel like OC gives more tank, and BS doesnt completely solve his MP problems meaning 2nd item aghs isnt optimal unless u have lots of charges. Also lesh doesnt really mind getting locked down since he shouldnt die to spells during the duration due to his spell vamp?

a casual platemail for shivas later seems good too if its lots of physical dps

scrubby and arka are right in this topic imo.

but i've seen envy feed with lesh on his smurf way too much kappa.
i feel like leshrac will b more effective in safelane with good farm rather than mid where he is a really easy target to gank with +1.

yea i see the potential in safe lane lesh esp on radiant where u kill their 2 roshan towers in like 10 min

You can play lesh any position, I play it offlane mostly against melee carrys!

Bloodstone over Octarine has the advantage of uptime and being less punished by mistake with suicide option.
I actually prefer second item Aghs because it makes you farm insanely fast and increases ur dps by a big chunk. The only chance of Octarine exceeding this damage is if you cast spells whenever they are off cd, however u rather want to run more with lesh than stand and cast.

In general I just think the bloodstone is the window to just get ahead and straight up win the game. Octarine gives you staying power which BS also provides.

I mean even if you get shiva second melee carrys have not the slightest chance vs and ur team. Octarine does not even give you that.

Even Veil and EB should be taken into account as damage amplifiers as second

Side note VG and IG made used this hero quite a bit in pro matches he was already pretty good tbh and the buffs made him great. His third ability just eats people.

@arka yes i completely agree with bs being the core first item. I'll heed your advice and consider aghs as a 2nd item next time!
@kitrak i feel like edict is wasted in a ranged matchup though. Also the slow scales too, and if you use level 1 lightning to hit the stun during laning its not mana/dmg efficient

Leshrac is strong now indeed. One of the reasons I think is that you can't stop him like normal carry with stuns/hexes etc, Leshrac burns you anyway.

If you skip lightning its somewhat of a suicide build. As the only chance for you to deal damage is to go close and if you are a little behind it might just turn to a feeding spree

Lesh isnt a great mid cause his 6 doesnt mean as much as some other mids. His 6 burns too much mana for it to be used early on.

Standi Chico, he doesn't get his ult til like levell 11 or 16. He goes max edict and lightening for the most dps. 1-4-4-0 (stats or split earth depending on your game after that) You don't wanna get your ulty until u can sustain all your spells during fights.

@Standin chico timido, @Hmongolian
You get Ult at lvl 6 and you dont level it up unless you are forced to it or you can afford it. I could swear that there is up to no spell that is as costefficient as Lvl 1 ulti

20 mana for 100 damage is literally nothing, 1 stick charge gives you pretty much 100 more damage, people not getting it at lvl 6 especially in a core position never ever made the math.

I disagree with lvl 6 not being meaningfull. It actually makes him a big threat if you manage ur mana well and u are able to get unexpected kills

His mid differs that he should be rather used as counter. You either rape a mid hero or if a hero is forced to rotate u can damage the tower greatly and create space. His ganking is only great with haste otherwise its meh tier unlike other mid heroes. However big countergank potential

What picks should i be scared of if i first pick lesh mid?

definitely mid
ofc its a bit risky vs ganks

Mid Lesh, Pick up ult at 6, Bottle boots into point booster first core item bloodstone.

I think the stun/lightning 4/4 build is not good. It does significantly less damage than stun/edict/ lvl 1 ult. Yes it is safer, but you farm slower without ult and cannot push towers.

You will get levels as mid and people underestimate the amount of damage edict/nova does when leshrac is level 6 assuming you have 3 points in edict. You can farm faster with ult, it is very cost efficient.

Leshrac has 320 base move speed, you should be able to solo kill anyone at level 3/4/5/6 with just edict and auto attacks assuming it is within the flow of the game and considering relative levels of other players in the game. You can contest runes with edict also and just run at the other solo mid in a 1v1 situation. Stun/lightning 4/4 imo actually makes you quite useless scaling since level 3/4 edict is amazingly good at pushing towers and giving you early map control.

I would do stun/edict picking up ult at 6 into bloodstone. I skill stats instead of lightning. Go around killing people at 6 with super high move speed and level 1 ult/edict. Max edict before stun.

Beware of high burst damage heroes mid. Gyro homing missile owns you, qop is a tough matchup due to dagger harass and low str gain and high burst, although a bad blink from qop = death within edict (if nothing else is there to absorb edict dmg). Shadow fiend is also a tough matchup depending on cs skills.

Cliffs -

stun/edict/ult at 6 by level 6 you should have 2 stun 3 edict 1 lvl in ult

Bottle -> boots -> point booster -> bloodstone then either euls or aghs

Stats instead of lightning

holy shit you guys are fucking awf ul ROFL

the whole leave it as level 1 for max efficiency shit is retarded

ur not gonna hit ur level 1 stun un less u have another hero setting up shit for u

if u are farming well mid why dont u get ult at lvl 6? how do u solo kill people without ur ult??

i've been playing lesh games on my alt and he is really strong/snowbally if u get a good start

the octarine core item is what i've been rushing and with the oct core + platemail ur basically an indestructible tank

i don't like getting lightning but i can see hte potential in it if ur behind maybe?

just tried octarine after bs aghs, its kinda shit~