Any improvements on my current item build? I want to climb ranked with medusa ty for any constructive advice
I have personally never liked Manta on Medusa.
First of all, it provides very negligible damage and your illusions hit for next to nothing unless you have 3/4 other big items. Don't get Midas on her either, I'd rather you went for your core items earlier so you can jungle/farm faster.
^you dont need to upgrade yasha to manta, just sell it when you get 6-slotted for a bigger item. Yasha itself is very cost-effective for 2K gold, just like drums.
Manta style is not really gotten for the illusions though, it's mostly to remove debuffs (disarms, ensnares, slows, amplifications, etc), and disjoint projectile abilities (mostly stuns). BKB can do the same though, but don't see it very often on her unless there's manaburn.
Yasha is useful on heroes who are excellent racecars. Drow, jug, troll and etc.
Medu is hardly a chaser. Shes more of the "walk into middle of fight, ult and split shot". So you would essentially be paying 2k for 16 dmg and 30% attack speed. Sounds gr8? There are plenty of other 'cost effective items' like MoM. And don't get started on how it makes you squishy, Medusas almost only participates in fights with her ultimate.
She's not a squishy hero who gets destroyed because a stun hit in the first place so rather than dodging one stun/purging debuffs, I've always preferred BKB on her because BKB + her ult makes you literally untouchable.
And don't use dotabuff's item winrate to justify its effectiveness lol, linkin's has like 60% wr when its a really shitty item on her. Raw Yasha is crappy on her and Manta is only really good if you have Skadi+1 other big item.
ok so midas, linkens are not THAT great; i admit..
but why no manta lategame? she hoards mass stat items anyways; like morph, that's huge dps increase..
so phases, mom (faster farming), yasha ( into situational rapier ) ,mael, skadi, situational bkb, butterfly, swap satanic if needed? what next? Finish with mjolnir/mkb/rapier/heart?
Does Phase-RoA-MoM-bkb?-Skadi-damage item sound viable
I need a build that can climb RMM effectively
http://i.imgur.com/Xz16RrZ.gif - why manta sucks early
no point getting bkb before skadi.
no point getting early bkb at all unless you have one big item (which should usually be skadi)
in fact, most of the time theres no point getting bkb at all UNLESS you really need the survivability cuz your team is utter crap
but when you do get it, you're literally an untouchable god
If you want a safe effective medu build to climb rmm, i would reccomend
4-0-4 build (safelane skipping serpent). Normally, safelane should mean you farm uninterrupted which makes w worthless because it pushes lane and does negligible dmg unless u max it. You only ever get it if for some reason your lane is jam packed with action (wtf u using medu for then) and even then I might not get it.
Start wraith for easy last hit, move onto phase and then aquila. sometimes you might skip aquila and leave it raw wraith band and get mom instead. why mom? it speeds up jungle farm a lot and gives you sustain. it makes you squishy? well you shouldn't be in fights at this point of time and when you do, you use ult so they don't 1 shot you by focusing you.
from this part there are 2 choices; str8 skadi OR maelstrom first then skadi. The latter is greedy and you should only do it if you're confident your team can provide the space. Getting that maelstrom would further speed up your farm even more.
But if you go for the prior, some people think "do i rlly do enuf dmg with phase+skadi+mom?"
Yes, you're a super ultra tanky monster and your ultimate means you usually win teamfights and mom means your dmg output will be up there without you needing to rush agi/aspd items.
in times of extreme danger when your team is losing, get divine/bkb.
hm.. i used to make manta / would consider yasha for attaining critical mass by midgame w/ mom+mael but i kinda like penguin suggestion. Also saves 1k on yasha that wont be bought and sold XD
Will try it one day...
anyways; so average 6slot build is
phases-travels/mom-satanic/mael-mjolnir/skadi/bkb or linkens/butterfly or rapier
situational mkb for pa/troll/butterfly ofc. What about heart for extra EHP?
i like to rush 20MIN rapier on dusa; tho XD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1375221308
This game I had excellent space so i went big items first. Ulti orb spam, you need stats to get tanky.
I usually go aquila but i had such an easy lane i bought brown boots into 2 ulti orbs.
Play her a bit greedy but if your team is getting rek, you have to show up and use your ult, its game changer like omnis ult. Try to farm efficiently and push your lane if your team is keeping all 5 busy.
Never go midas, never go linken until 3-4 big items.
that gif is such bullshit, 1 lvl 10 medusa illusion with empty inventory except manta
here i can make a gif too
daedalus sucks, gif is an enfeebled dusa lvl 1 with daedalus getting killed by a hellbear camp
get mask of madness/yasha and phase, dusa needs ms and ias
then get damage or bkb, if you really want hp get a point booster and build it into skadi later
also buy magic wand
^ the illusions being bad isn't the reason that manta is "bad", the issue is the mana cost, spending 165 mana is around 400 EHP on dusa. Its still not a trash item, but activating it just to farm can be bad if you don't have a ton of mana regain, and poping it in a team fight can actually be worse then not activating it at all in a lot of situations.
yeah; around 33% dps increase is not worth 400ehp when you melt people slower without splitshot mantas :)
^ well if the other team has even moderate AOE the illusions die before getting more than 2-3 attacks off (remember they don't get mana sheild) once you take armor into account and the fact that they likely aren't actually hitting all 5 players you could easily have done more damage to your self then the other team. again its not always going to work out like that, sometimes you can manage to block some damge with the active to compensate for the EHP loss, other times the other team has no AOE or maybe you just need the purge so you can get your ult off through silences.
Even if the illusions DO inflict more damage to the other team then the active did to you, that doesn't mean that you couldn't have gotten that same amount of damage output from a different item that wouldn't cost you any EHP .
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/144906401/matches?hero=medusa
Follow this guy's build, after bloodstone medusa's pretty much on skadi level in tankiness
Then u dps, then u fucking buy sheepstick and fuck over any carry that's left.
Its funny because ive been destroyed by a bloodstone medusa about 2 months ago. He went aquila>tread>bloodstone then made a sny + diffussal lvl 2. We had an omni knight so thats why i believe.
What seemed good with bloodstone is that it give you pretty much the same tankiness but aside from better regen, when we killed her she was on a 30sec cd instead of a 90sec death timer. So she never had to buyback so she then got a buterfly and a rapier.
Bloodstone medusa seems legit and i will try it.
@Solaire Remember to not forget the sheep stick after treads bloodstone sny diffusal mkb
It's the one that fucks carries over ( Oh yeah, don't go full lategame, trust me it may seem like a 1v5 build but come late game still killable but hard to do so BUT STILL KILLABLE.)
Whoa Pengu, linken's does not suck on her at all, it just sucks to rush it cus it doesn't provide nearly enough dps to help her farm quickly. As a 3rd or 4th item it's pretty damn good, like after skadi and butterfly or skadi mkb.
And yasha is not bad at all, the move speed really helps farming a ton. With split shot dusa clears lanes and jungle so quickly, so you're mainly going to be limited by how fast you can move between lanes. With phase boots yasha will help you move very quickly. Also just cus you aren't going manta, you can go s&y sometimes. More hp, maim proc is good, more move speed, it's not bad at all. And if you go the sell route then you're talking a 1k investment really.
Skipping snake is bad. First I don't think there's any reason to max mana shield that early. The only time I can see it saving you is if you're getting heavily ganked under tower or something and it allows your team to tp in before you go oom and die. Otherwise most situations you would have lived or died with level 1 shield just as easily. Snake however is great for farming. Pull a jungle camp next to another one and it does crap loads of dmg and you'll steal most if not all of the mana back. You don't have to use it in lane if you don't want to but it's very good for zoning out pesky offlaners. Like timber and bristle are just going to laugh at your puny auto attacks trying to zone them out but get a good 3 or 4 bounce snake on them and they'll be hurting.
OP your items look pretty normal and fine, your builds I would definitely max split shot before mana shield. That's about it. Also you don't always have to max your ult, you can take stats if you want. More points only increase the dmg done, not the durations. Up to you. And do consider mask of madness, awesome farming item. You really don't need to get yasha or maelstrom if you have it and can go straight for bigger cores like aquila, mom, skadi, butterfly. Although the lightning shield from mjollnir is pretty awesome on her cus the mana shield makes you live so long you'll proc a ton of lightnings.
Some retard doesn't understand the whole purpose of the gif was to illustrate how weak manta is if rushed, plz read what i write before writing some sarcastic comment that makes you look dumb.
Anyway @timberwolf Like I said, if you wanna speed farming up there are better alternatives like mask of madness. That thing makes you do more damage, provides a sustain and you walk faster. Have you tried early jungling with medu with the following items; phase,aquila,yasha? Its slow, its slow like hell you kill things so slowly that extra 30~ms you get still doesn't make up for how slow it is. You don't even have sustain so you'll be kiting up and down and making things even slower wt.
Sny just sounds funky cause you get 0 int and int is a big part on medusa. Int plays a bigger in raising her tankiness than raw hp. Never tried sny before, doesn't sound good. Might work idk since i never tried it.
Linken's on the other hand is a debatable item. I agree it absolutely sucks as a rush. As an 4th/5th/6th item it still depends. With the kind of tankiness you have at that point, what sort of spells are you looking to shrug off with it that a bkb couldn't? Only doom and abyssal if you ask me and most skilled opponents work their way around it by disabling it. A huge part of linken is the regeneration it provides and if ask me, said regeneration is mostly useless that late into the game. Its nice to have but gosh the item costs 5.1k. The stats are not bad though. But you could pay 1.2k less for bkb which would be more gamebreaking or pay slightly more and get a bfly/hex/refresher/daed.
^ Sny really isnt bad. If you go phase too, you get fast which is nice for a medusa since she has low mobility, plus the maim lets you chase ennemies better and its basicaly a poor mans skadi. If you dont need the purge you should try it.
I don't rush yasha for farming, I would get it after mask of madness and then move at near max speed. It's sweet.
I like s&y in general. I know it has no int but the maim proc fully stacks with skadi. While medusa shines in teamfights with ult and splitshot, with skadi and s&y most right click carries can't kill her, they'll attack way too slow. The downside to skadi and s&y is not really that much dmg. It might not be the greatest item on her, I just like it and it's a manta alternative if you don't want to sell yasha. Really you can skip yasha altogether, not a huge deal.
I don't think linken's is that debatable. You basically decide do I need bkb or not, and then do I need the hex from scythe or not. If you don't need either, go linken's cus it has the best all around stats. Bkb is often overkill for dusa, you can absorb nukes so it's really just so you make sure to get your ult off and not get blow up by like a storm initiation or something. Then scythe stats vs linken's stats, do you want 6 hp regen, 5 str, 5 agi and 10 dmg or 20 more int? I prefer the linken's stats cus you probably have enough int at that point that you die before you go oom.
Many games though skadi is plenty of stats to keep you alive anyway and you should just go dmg items, mkb, butter, daedulus.
I don't wanna argue about SnY, the way I play Medusa makes it an obsolete item for its price but other people have other ways of playing her.
The argument against Linken is also in your argument about how Linken is good.
You literally just explained how Medusa soaks damage easily with her insane tankiness. In other words, a Medusa only really wants that magic immunity so she doesn't get disabled. So why would you ever get a Linken for a spell shield that can only stop a single spell that might not even be a disable?
It has mediocre stats for its price because the main incentive of that item is the spell shield. An added bonus is the regeneration which I explained is nice but not necessary on Medusa. In other words, if you're after stats, then Linken provides a horrible cost ratio for them. If you don't want to get disabled, then Linken hardly does the job since it stops only one spell and there are many work arounds for it like casting impale on ground.
As I said earlier, the only time I would consider it would be against Doom or Abyssal.
Regen is actually really good on her late game cus you can win fights and still push. You'll never go oom, you'll heal up between fights. Regen does make you a lot tankier.
Stats might be mediocre but everything other than like skadi and bloodstone are right? I mean nothing else comes close to +25 stats at skadi's price but stacking skadi's probably isn't worth it, bloodstone is pure defense vs a linken's which has 15 agi and 10 dmg. Manta actually has probably the closest stats and we both hate it. The only other super comparable item is scythe which I said is a lot better if the sheep is needed vs like a storm or PA or something.
Idk maybe I'll start rushing daedulus and bloodstone on her lol. Bloodstone gives so much freakin mana and hp.
^ you dont need linken regen with a bloodstone. Bloodstone is becoming my favorite item on storm too, when i know my team is up to gank i skip orchid and go straight into blood stone, its regen should keep medusa farming and pushing at all time, no more trip to foutain.
Also fast respawn timer on such a tanky hero plus a buyback makes her almost impossible to keep her dead for long.
I wasn't suggesting liken's AND bloodstone, that's massively overkill, I was saying liken's over bloodstone cus it has some dmg stats, bloodstone is pure regen/hp/mana, maybe you can balance it by going total + dmg on other items.
Just played 2 games of medusa with MoM. Build seems pretty fine Btw does SnY only proc on main target?
@stateofohayo you are completely wrong about skipping snake on safe lane dusa.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1171845805
heres the textbook way of safe lane dusa
sny only procs on main
well,there are 2 builds... 1 ,wagamaga ones,with MoM divine bkb . the other one with manta and skadi. you can search on yt for them,both are pretty good
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