@Smaug
if the system counted last N months, you would have a lower position in rating i guess, cz in your particular case high hero score is based on huge quantity of games mostly, not winrate/kda/skill division (no offense)
but I would agree with the fact that the system is far from ideal, although the reasons besides my opinion are different to the ones you provide.
^ So what? Unlike apparently most of you, I'm not a show-off and just want to have an actually good system in which I can check out good players to get new ideas how to play my favourite heroes. It's in fact pretty unfair that I'm on top just because I have that many games, nobody can reach me by just playing more matches. I criticized exactly this aspect already.
It's just obvious that a high KDA/Winrate doesn't make a good player.
@Smaug
actually good system in what sense? if it reflected the best players for given hero, it would be rather boring (95% of top for any hero would be pro players). the existing one gives everyone a chance.
personally I dislike how divisions work - they do not reflect accurately the average level of skill of one's games; same as I dont think professional division should have such a huge advantage over diamond 10 cz the games that are counted are all played in same VHS pub games.
Good system in a sense that I can actually check out their replays and don't facepalm every few minutes because of Black^'s stupid moves/deaths. I want to have people who are visually noticeably experienced on the hero and not people who are there because "lulz im pro and everyone does what I want". I want to have people who can play difficult games with the hero and not just the easy ones.
What do I care about the guys who have 90% winrate on OD against Juggernaut mid? I'd be way more interested in those who have 80% winrate on OD against Razor or Sniper mid.
well you must consider that even though you are much more familiar with OD than Black, hes still better overall (considering not only his personal hero skill [cant find appropriate words to explain], but also his general skills that are important when he plays either od or whatever - map awareness, decision making, etc.) If VG draft OD and have an opportunity to substitute black by you for one game, they probably wont do it.
^ His map awareness was absolutely horrible, he didn't see the Clock ganking him despite there being wards, then when he stands right next to him, he finally sees him and runs straight towards him trying to Astral him, as if clock wouldn't hook him straight (he did and Black^ died). His item decision (Midas) also was highly questionable, with a Blink Dagger he wouldn't have fed the other 3 times in a row. But whatever, his team never let him down, if I was to play in his place and played like that, my team would rage, steal the lane and probably try to destroy my items instead of stacking camps for me.
You seem to forget that Black^ is a carry player and not a particularly strong solo mid. The skills it requires are really different. Occasionally I watch professionals play OD in competitive games and it is staggering how most players don't even know how to position correctly (for example standing between the enemy T3 and T2 right at the front when pushing the T2, then being surprised that they get instantly doomed/hookshotted/killed, etc), let alone basic knowledge about the hero (Astral timing, Skill builds, item builds).
And to all this comes the even more pathetic fact that Black^ only picks the hero EXTREMELY rarely, in situations that are ABSOLUTELY 100% optimal for the hero. And then he gives such results. Disappointing. It's pointless to watch such a player doing BASIC mistakes as "the best OD of all time". Let alone the fact that with the frequency he picks the hero, he shouldn't even be qualified for the ranking (1 game per month?).
Idk, I would still disagree. Imo the way u play given hero is smthng like
Skill when u pick given hero = Hero skill + General skill
if in general u r good enough, then your results are better even if your hero skills suck harded than sasha grey in her best days. The question is whether the top should focus on "skill when you pick given hero" or "hero skill". In the first case, rankings would be just crap. Second case would give us data that is not representative. Atm we go mixed variant, that is quite good tbh.
^ I mean sure, you can make a ranking like that, it would just be completely useless, since nobody would be able to watch your games and then learn something out of them.
smaug get it over with, I've seen zero good sf players both frequently on front page of dota 2 client in the past year ever since MMR system, in perfect world server aka china, NOR anyone who has the slightest fucking clue, here on dotabuff ranking
short of one guy who's now out of it. balls.
i'm using a build for this patch inspired by watching his replays a long time ago back when he was still top 10..I don't remember his exact plays, only double daedalus..and now that I recheck his page he actually was getting occasional travels, midas and he always got MOM and sb like I do now. I always went SB and MOM for most of the heroes I played but I never liked treads especially not on sf for the 3 years I played this game cus it's just too fucking slow and dumb and sf isn't a fucking tanky core unless you go retard tanky build such as the ohsoamazing skadi plague of this patch.
FUCK U PRO PLAYERS, you all suck dick and you try to parade your ego around whoring attention and bait esport money out of complete scrubs
oh and pis is a complete fucktwat with millions of fangays the dude doesn't even play dota 2 when dota 2 wasn't "popular" enough for his fucking videos to earn enough dough. now after 4 month streaming on huya.com he done grinded his ohsoprecious solo mmr from 4k to 7k and top5 china he then wants to take a piece of dat ti5 cash LMFAO
immortal magneto gaming sucked before and it's sucks some more with pis's crew of dota 1 recent converts and nobodies
I hope an admin can read this and help me out.
I just want to know how it works. My performance with every hero is consistently good. However with some of my specialised heroes, I wonder how I don't climb the ranking quick enough, it'll take me 20 wins straight to get to top 50. I thought I'd get more points per win. I know point fluctuations stop the more games. You played, but shouldn't there be rewards for win streaks or something?
Just a thought.
@Smaug
if the system counted last N months, you would have a lower position in rating i guess, cz in your particular case high hero score is based on huge quantity of games mostly, not winrate/kda/skill division (no offense)
but I would agree with the fact that the system is far from ideal, although the reasons besides my opinion are different to the ones you provide.
^ So what? Unlike apparently most of you, I'm not a show-off and just want to have an actually good system in which I can check out good players to get new ideas how to play my favourite heroes. It's in fact pretty unfair that I'm on top just because I have that many games, nobody can reach me by just playing more matches. I criticized exactly this aspect already.
It's just obvious that a high KDA/Winrate doesn't make a good player.
@Smaug
actually good system in what sense? if it reflected the best players for given hero, it would be rather boring (95% of top for any hero would be pro players). the existing one gives everyone a chance.
personally I dislike how divisions work - they do not reflect accurately the average level of skill of one's games; same as I dont think professional division should have such a huge advantage over diamond 10 cz the games that are counted are all played in same VHS pub games.
"actually good system in what sense"
Good system in a sense that I can actually check out their replays and don't facepalm every few minutes because of Black^'s stupid moves/deaths. I want to have people who are visually noticeably experienced on the hero and not people who are there because "lulz im pro and everyone does what I want". I want to have people who can play difficult games with the hero and not just the easy ones.
What do I care about the guys who have 90% winrate on OD against Juggernaut mid? I'd be way more interested in those who have 80% winrate on OD against Razor or Sniper mid.
well you must consider that even though you are much more familiar with OD than Black, hes still better overall (considering not only his personal hero skill [cant find appropriate words to explain], but also his general skills that are important when he plays either od or whatever - map awareness, decision making, etc.) If VG draft OD and have an opportunity to substitute black by you for one game, they probably wont do it.
^ His map awareness was absolutely horrible, he didn't see the Clock ganking him despite there being wards, then when he stands right next to him, he finally sees him and runs straight towards him trying to Astral him, as if clock wouldn't hook him straight (he did and Black^ died). His item decision (Midas) also was highly questionable, with a Blink Dagger he wouldn't have fed the other 3 times in a row. But whatever, his team never let him down, if I was to play in his place and played like that, my team would rage, steal the lane and probably try to destroy my items instead of stacking camps for me.
You seem to forget that Black^ is a carry player and not a particularly strong solo mid. The skills it requires are really different. Occasionally I watch professionals play OD in competitive games and it is staggering how most players don't even know how to position correctly (for example standing between the enemy T3 and T2 right at the front when pushing the T2, then being surprised that they get instantly doomed/hookshotted/killed, etc), let alone basic knowledge about the hero (Astral timing, Skill builds, item builds).
And to all this comes the even more pathetic fact that Black^ only picks the hero EXTREMELY rarely, in situations that are ABSOLUTELY 100% optimal for the hero. And then he gives such results. Disappointing. It's pointless to watch such a player doing BASIC mistakes as "the best OD of all time". Let alone the fact that with the frequency he picks the hero, he shouldn't even be qualified for the ranking (1 game per month?).
You're extremely overrating these players.
Idk, I would still disagree. Imo the way u play given hero is smthng like
Skill when u pick given hero = Hero skill + General skill
if in general u r good enough, then your results are better even if your hero skills suck harded than sasha grey in her best days. The question is whether the top should focus on "skill when you pick given hero" or "hero skill". In the first case, rankings would be just crap. Second case would give us data that is not representative. Atm we go mixed variant, that is quite good tbh.
^ I mean sure, you can make a ranking like that, it would just be completely useless, since nobody would be able to watch your games and then learn something out of them.
smaug get it over with, I've seen zero good sf players both frequently on front page of dota 2 client in the past year ever since MMR system, in perfect world server aka china, NOR anyone who has the slightest fucking clue, here on dotabuff ranking
short of one guy who's now out of it. balls.
i'm using a build for this patch inspired by watching his replays a long time ago back when he was still top 10..I don't remember his exact plays, only double daedalus..and now that I recheck his page he actually was getting occasional travels, midas and he always got MOM and sb like I do now. I always went SB and MOM for most of the heroes I played but I never liked treads especially not on sf for the 3 years I played this game cus it's just too fucking slow and dumb and sf isn't a fucking tanky core unless you go retard tanky build such as the ohsoamazing skadi plague of this patch.
FUCK U PRO PLAYERS, you all suck dick and you try to parade your ego around whoring attention and bait esport money out of complete scrubs
oh and pis is a complete fucktwat with millions of fangays the dude doesn't even play dota 2 when dota 2 wasn't "popular" enough for his fucking videos to earn enough dough. now after 4 month streaming on huya.com he done grinded his ohsoprecious solo mmr from 4k to 7k and top5 china he then wants to take a piece of dat ti5 cash LMFAO
immortal magneto gaming sucked before and it's sucks some more with pis's crew of dota 1 recent converts and nobodies
fleetadmiral's sf for a casual example, smoke 100 pis any day
oh and rtz sumail mushi etchurdur+ferrari mikasa maybe 2009 lmfao can all go eat shit
i see something burning in here
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/86809886
used to call himself BALLS
or, balla, you can see the history still just fine
also there's only two reasons someone's getting insane kda/winrate
1: intentionally smurfing
2: unintentionally smurfing=trenched
I hope an admin can read this and help me out.
I just want to know how it works. My performance with every hero is consistently good. However with some of my specialised heroes, I wonder how I don't climb the ranking quick enough, it'll take me 20 wins straight to get to top 50. I thought I'd get more points per win. I know point fluctuations stop the more games. You played, but shouldn't there be rewards for win streaks or something?
Just a thought.