General DiscussionWhat's wrong with Vlads for Anti-Mage?

you dont have dotabuff plus so i cant check how early you got the vladimir...
but it should be bcause you prob got it min 30 which is wayyyyy too late and well you suck at farming and cost you the game

I remember that was the standard AM build back in dota1, when the word "support" didn't exist in 90% of the servers.

There is nothing wrong with Vlad's anti-mage.

Since he gets abyssal late the HotD is a more logical pick. Vlads would make sense if he spent a lot of time teamfigthing but in this meta it feels like he's not joining fights until 30min+. So he just needs life steal for some sort for sustain in the jungle.

zano support with vlads is barely any use for 20min spli push farm am
only the skymage game u shud skip vlads

w-w-w-ww-what hpw did hotd come into the picture

i always buy vlad and sell it late game
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/164564158/matches?date=&faction=&hero=anti-mage&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

vlads is really good because you dont have to go back to base to heal, and the mana regen + perseverance means you don't have to tread swap, and you can take rosh by like 16 mins, and armor is good too

"Since he gets abyssal late the HotD is a more logical pick"

HotD is a UMA, Anti mage has a UMA stapled onto his ass, so if he wants life steal he needs vlads to get it. I don't think he needs life steal to sustain farm since you are already going for a BF any way and likely a PMS for block + a ton of armor.

I'd only go Vlads before Manta if you're dodging team fights. The Vlads lets you tank some tower shots for your creeps and life steal it back with the enemy creep wave. AM is a really great split pusher once he has his bfury treads and vlads. The aura also makes your creeps tankier. If you are going to need to fight sooner, go for Manta before Vlads. Once AM has his manta, he can make a solid contribution to team fights....Vlads really isn't going to be the deal breaker to team fight or not.

Since he gets abyssal late the HotD is a more logical pick. Vlads would make sense if he spent a lot of time teamfigthing but in this meta it feels like he's not joining fights until 30min+. So he just needs life steal for some sort for sustain in the jungle.

This is why you take every advice here with a grain of salt. Usually there aren't statements like this which is straight up wrong, but make sure you think for yourself when taking advice. There are tons of people on this forum who I don't even take into account lol. I'm sure some could say the same about me, but I hope people can make their own decisions instead of blinding following what someone said here.

I like vlads if you can get it early (18-20 min after bf, treads) and still have your manta before 25, its great for sustain when farming keeping you always at full health and mana, and gives the option to rosh.

Or if your a massive troll, you can do this http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1071528413 (warning super scrub normal bracket troll game)

vlads lets you farm without losing any hp, extra mana regen for blinks, extra damage and armor for split pushing, lets you solo rosh

totally fine on am

vlads sucks, trust me, i'm top 100 antimage

>>> vlads sucks, trust me, i'm top 100 antimage

Any reason it sucks? I would like to hear the reasoning

because im top 100 antimage

>>> because im top 100 antimage

That Doesn't help anyone and is a nul and void reason, Is it the fact that it delays manta or uses to many slots?

The hole "i'm top blah blah" also is not a good reason, and many people have gotten top 100 by playing lots of games on a hero while not being that great on them.

Also you have a mix of games in both high and very high suggesting that you are only ~4k which is far from being the top 100 in the hero.

Oh yea black builds it http://www.dotabuff.com/players/21289303/matches?date=&faction=&hero=anti-mage&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=

I have no idea why he builds it but he is rank 1 AM so i think you super bad at the game cause you don't build it (/sarcasm)

^doesnt matter who builds it .. its the best item on am .. only shitcnts dont build it

Umm... Ignore my comment about HotD I was thinking about Satanic which isn't really core on AM anyhow. I was prolly thinking of PA.

^ i Don't think you can make Satanic on him either :/

Bait, i play with 2.5k ppl party, that's why i get high skill games, i'm 4.5k lol

and i'm being sarcastic my antimage sucks shit

what im really curious about is why people never go vanguard maelstrom or vanguard vlads and stuff

^ I've seen a tanky fighting build that went treads, vanguard into crimson and vlads, It was actually Black and he wrecked the game so hard. I think BF to vlads is great, After BF If you move between lane and jungle it could take 3 min for full vlads and it opens up your options immensely which is good for the farm intensive AM. If you can manage Treads, BF, Vlads by 20ish minutes you pretty good to go and then the high tier items should flow.

>^ i Don't think you can make Satanic on him either

Huh? Satanic is pretty much late game core on PA.

^I think he was referring to when you were referring to Anti-mage and not PA

when did this turn into a pa discussion

Vlads is so good on AM. Without it he cant farm hard camps or ancients without losing HP which hurts his splitpushing ability. Also if you get a successful gank off in the midgame and you are on like 40% which happens a lot you can continue farming instead of going into base and losing out on about 900 gold. If that happens twice, the item basically paid for itself. It's also a nice damageboost and adds to the Battlefury manaregen so you can just blink everytime its up and still be full mana all game.

vlads am, no vlads am. end of the day, am sucks in pubs

sure he can technically get items faster than most carries. ASSUMING you have space creators, which is questionable in pubs.
even then, an am team centric team doesn't come online till post 30+ mins

in most pubs, if u are given the most farm and have contributed nothing in 30+ mins, most people have given up.

Now especially with the PA heavy meta, it crushes am. 43% winrate is sad just sad.

btw, vlads am is most effective when you have expect yourself to have a right click battle with another hero that you'll need lifesteal to win. Ie, their hard carry. Otherwise, most ams tend to skip it

No what the fuck am doesnt get vlads to manfight

its for split pushing isnt it?
well thats why i get it. delays my manta probably by 2-3 mins but it pays off later on i think.

do ancients or roshan too

I think vlads is fine, I'd just worry about 6 slotting too early with it. If you have treads, manta, vlads, battlefury, TP, only leaves one slot left. Abyssal? Then you're going to either end up rushing boots of travel a little early or going heart/bkb/whatever with no TP. Although if game isn't won by the time you have to do that then you probably aren't winning or you are farming so fast it doesn't matter.

It's like when I play troll warlord, I love vlads for him but the slot is too valuable cus I load up on other "cheap" items like medallion and aquila. Phase, tp, vlads, aquila, medallion, s&y or crystalis. You're 6 slotted at ~25 mins. AM doesn't have it that bad but it's something to keep in mind.

travels arent as important on am because of your mobility. if you're on the enemy side of the map and you need to be at base, sell your treads at the side shop and buy a tp home, then rebuy the treads (or travels), or stash your treads in the enemy base and then buy a tp.

assuming you don't even use blink to reduce travel time by taking shorter paths, but only to blink to where you would walk anyways, an am is at least hasted, as 1150 units every 6 seconds = little under 200 extra ms, with treads he'll have 365, add 150 to account for blink animation + and he has ~515 ms, although in actuality it's more like 515 and semi-free pathing with blink.

even if you have to sell the vlads later on, you'll benefit from it for so long it pays itself off several times over. just because you have to sell it later doesn't mean it's shit. look at drum for example.