General Discussion

General DiscussionWhy is Alchemist's win rate so low?

Why is Alchemist's win rate so low? in General Discussion
Jaq

    It's 40% on the dotabuff as of now, and it keeps decreasing. Is there a reason why he has a low win rate?

    Midi Prill

      This hero seems to suck intensely in this patch. Lol. Never lost to it in weeks.

      jo~

        new patch punishes high networth, more so for alch since for carry alch the entire idea is to win by superior net worth.

        Guts

          Just that there are many better carries than this pos which has been nerfed hard along with lycan.

          Dire Wolf

            Because alch is like anti mage, you have to farm up and get a gold advantage.

            npc
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              Totentanz to The King: M ...

                Because people still insist on trying to play carry with him while this patch is perfect for him to be a support.

                Von Darkmoor

                  Sam Fuckin' Peckinpah

                  This guy nailed it!!!

                  THICC BABY SHUM

                    Its not this patch, he has been sucking for 3 patches already, since his stun and acid spray got nerfed. 2 of the best abilities on him.

                    THICC BABY SHUM

                      Him as support dsnt work ether his stun sucks, and to hard to land at maximum stun. Idk if you ppl are blind or just got last in metas, but he hasnt been picked at all, not carry not support. Y pick him as support when venge does everyting he does but better.

                      Fakovnik

                        what nerfed ?

                        Trodlabundin

                          ^Nerf to his bomb was time lowered from (8? or 7) seconds to 5. (The time you have to cast the bomb within), also earlier the bombtimer continued while flying. Making it so you got max damage and stun duration if you casted on 2sec, as you'd get if you casted on .5.

                          Now the duration ends as soon as you throw it.

                          His biggest let-down was ult nerf though. People looked on it as a buff to lategame, but in +regen is bad. It's only good for sustaining lane and vs. dot damage I guess? Raw hp with armors and magic resis is way better, and you don't need to use an important lategame itemslot for heart or whatever in all cases.

                          Satellizer

                            they nerfed his night vision and a little damage nerf to acid spray (and fixed the stun timer), while increasing the armor reduction.

                            THICC BABY SHUM

                              6.82
                              Acid Spray negative armor increased from 3/4/5/6 to 4/5/6/7
                              Acid Spray damage type from composite to physical (still pierces Spell Immunity)
                              Acid Spray damage reduced from 14/20/26/32 to 12/16/20/24

                              6.80
                              Night vision reduced from 1400 to 800.
                              Unstable Concoction icon.png Unstable Concoction Maximum shaking duration reduced from 7 to 5.5. Max power is still reached after 5 seconds.
                              No longer continues to get stronger while it is in the air.

                              6.79
                              Chemical Rage icon.png Chemical Rage No longer provides 250/500/750 bonus HP.
                              HP regen increased from 15/30/60 to 50/75/100.

                              nothing but nerfs, he used to be best hero in doto, welp no more, the worst, veng is the hero now.

                              Androgynous

                                "nothing but nerfs"

                                ?

                                the chemical rage change was a nerf to carry alch. imo it's a buff to support alch cos it gave more overall hp, and you dont want to waste big nukes to burst down a support alch.

                                acid spray damage value is virtually unchanged vs most heroes who have 25% magic resistance, but it is now better versus heroes who have higher than default magic resistance.

                                acids overall damage is increased due to the extra -1 armour and that also helps concoction damage to make up for the nerf to the shake duration. the extra -1 armour gives ur stun extra damage to account for the indirect damage nerf when the shaking duration got reduced - resulting in lower charged stuns, without giving back the old stun which was too easy to get max duration from.

                                so

                                6.80
                                - shake time reduced and stun does not charge in the air
                                ∴ lowers concoction damage and stun duration

                                6.82
                                - acid spray negative armour increased
                                ∴ concoction damage increased

                                THICC BABY SHUM

                                  6.82
                                  Acid Spray negative armor increased from 3/4/5/6 to 4/5/6/7
                                  Acid Spray damage type from composite to physical (still pierces Spell Immunity)
                                  Acid Spray damage reduced from 14/20/26/32 to 12/16/20/24
                                  , yesbut the most important things got nerfed, the reason we dont see alchemist in pros oreve in pubs much.

                                  Totentanz to The King: M ...

                                    He just needs his 7 seconds stun back. You now can't even get full value from the stun as you will only have 0.5 to cast it and something could go terribly wrong during that time.

                                    Born

                                      but if he is ahead as support his fucking dmg from stun and medal + spray hits like a truck. literally drops 50% of hp early on.

                                      THICC BABY SHUM

                                        used to, do it again, dsnt work, plus meta heroes are tanky, try to jump on es or ogre lol gl. Nowhe is not even a hero.

                                        Androgynous

                                          "You now can't even get full value from the stun as you will only have 0.5 to cast it and something could go terribly wrong during that time."

                                          well to be fair, it's a 4 second non ultimate, aoe stun. that's pretty good so it's got to have downsides to be fair (like shackleshot for example).

                                          also now there's some degree of skill involved in charging the stun. previously anybody could get a max damage + duration stun with almost no difficulty, now, you have to make a judgement call whether or not it's worth trying to get the full value out of the stun or not, and being disabled for even the slightest amount of time will cause you to blow up, whereas with the 7 second shake time, it was still possible to get your max stun off if you were hit by lower duration stun, so there wasn't as much risk-reward to the ability.

                                          @YNIT
                                          ok, so you repeated the 6.82 patch notes again, what's your point though?

                                          u dont see him in pubs because everyone wants to build him as a greedy carry, which is bad right now because he needs to be ahead in gold in order to perform on par with the enemy team, and with the huge gold bounties that are dependent on team / total net worth, alch's tendency to get huge GPM can end up backfiring and end up giving the enemy team lots of gold if they simply pick on the easier to kill heroes on the alchs team

                                          Totentanz to The King: M ...

                                            It's 4 seconds only if you can full channel it (which now you mostly can't) and AoE is almost not even noticable. But yeah I agree, especially the fact that it got stronger while flying was pretty bullshit.

                                            THICC BABY SHUM

                                              there was a vido where alch got double kill as someone tp away and stun kept following to fountain lol, was funny.

                                              THICC BABY SHUM

                                                venge ogre es > alch

                                                Stinkoman

                                                  The fact that you need precise timing with the concoction and that your night vision is nerfed when you tend to gank makes him an extremely weak pick.

                                                  Polkadot Piranha

                                                    It probably doesn't help that the most popular build is maxing Greed by lvl 7. That leaves you at a severe disadvantage when it comes to actually useful skills early on.

                                                    saMoves

                                                      I wonder why. Pubstats are based mostly on 3k MMR and lower games(they make up more than 80%+-? of the dota population).

                                                      Look at any skill-based hero, qop es ta invoker so on so for, all of them have shitty winrates. Meanwhile good players have 60-70% winrate on those heroes. Explains alot.

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