HUD statistic overviews could show a persons KDA/Winrate/No. games played with X hero.
You can obscure MMR bullying by giving an MMR standard deviation of your team/opponents instead so you know if you ended up with some fucking 5.5k+3k party duostack. So many ways to provide access to stats to provide better gameplay without causing e-peen bullying...
I wish I could fish out my thread I made like a year ago saying that once they release pub ranked MM all you would see on forums is people crying about MM
@humdinger
Why do you need this information for? To know if you should pick a joke hero to avoid losing with your "good heroes"? To have a reason to start flaming from lvl 1 because lowest mmr picked carry?
http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2014-01-22-public-display-of-mmr-in-ranked-solo-matches
http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2013-12-31-ranked-mmr-thread
http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2013-12-14-ranked-solo-mmr-is-inaccurate
http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2014-01-08-5k-mmr-solo-queue-only
This goes back to where it all began with blunt trying to convince people he was a 4.6K player and then changed his mind and decided he was 6K.
@6_din_49, I highly doubt you're a 12 year old so please work on your comprehension skills. My post suggested giving an MMR standard deviation, not revealing the MMR. There is a huge difference. I like to know if my team are all the same MMR or theres a seriously distorted stack mixed in.
And how statistics would help, it'd be really cool if you hover over a teammates name during load/pick and it says top 5 most picked heroes and some random statistics such as APM, Average wards placed blahblahblah. It also helps convince people when you're intending on weird lineups.
Some people are still against say, midlane PA. Imagine if they hover over and see a 65% winrate with 4.5 kda, less arguments. Supports would know who to focus on helping and yadiyadiyadia blablabla. Etc.
Indeed. If it works the opposite way, all the better. You flame smurfs all the time the time and say they ruin the games for their teammates. I say someone with a 25% winrate on Templar Assassin asking for mid is the equivalent to that.
and you think because you start to flame them they will go 'You are right sir I will swap to playing CM til I am a better TA player'
The only time MM should be hidden is during the actual match. You should not have the option to turn off your stats BUT in the middle of a match all stats will cause is flaming. I could link like 50 threads proving my point but it is pretty obvious that the community can not be free to do as it wishes.
@OP
Assuming we would have same mmr, how would you react if I was in your team and pick Dazzle?
You're tunnel visioning here. Stats anonymity has also given rise to false claims, flaming and general dickery. I mean, if I'm going to have to deal with dicks, can I deal with dicks who are also good players? I've dealt with countless claims of people saying 'trust me, i gud mid'. And yes, they will go 'You are right sir I will swap to playing CM til I am a better TA player', cuz that was how it worked for HoN.
People want to win and when they know of certainty that theres is a better player for the job, they are MORE likely to give in and swap roles instead of being flamed all day long and eventually losing.
And like I fuckin' said, I'm not asking to reveal MMR, I said stats and MMR Standard Deviation. You do know what Standard Deviation is right?
@6_din, I would say could you pick another hero that you're better at?
Likewise if you saw me picking Skywrath, you'd either ask me to swap heroes or avoid laning with me like the plague.
No all it will lead to is flaming
standard deviation just makes it harder for people who cant do math to figure out other peoples MM. You can just work backwards and calculate their MM based on the deviation.
@humdinger
so If I had a higher MM than you and I told you to play CM you would pick her right?
And I played hon for a bit and it did NOT work like that in pubs. Nobody ever listens to the random person saying "You play X hero because I am higher than you"
@humdinger
And this will make my game experience more enjoyable, right? Or maybe I'd mute you and stick with doing whatever I want? You realize game would be ruined before it would start?
The standard deviation of Radiant team is ~100. How do you work backwards from this? You just know on average everyone is within 100 MMR of each other. Likewise if you see something like ~600, you know theres a stack or someone huge got matched in.
And whether you believe it or not, it worked relatively well in HoN (showing stats). Nobody, well almost nobody, wants to play a game where they get flamed all day long. Thats why people shut the hell up if they were the lowest MMR on their team because if they stole the lane/role, they'd get flamed right from the start. And people pretty much figured out that getting flamed by your entire team from the immediate beginning and noone supporting you wasn't exactly fun.
Its slightly different with what I'm suggesting because you can only see stats. But if the standard deviation is low then the stats would be accurate relatively to you, no?
"so If I had a higher MM than you and I told you to play CM you would pick her right?"
I wouldn't know your MMR. But if I had a 35% winrate on CM and the whole team is telling me not to pick it, I would probably not pick it because I'd have to deal with all the flame.
@Sampson, like you said, a bit.
Plenty of montages and humour videos have shown how Pink always tells people to GTFO from mid because he was the highest MM.
@6_din_49
If everyone sees that you suck with a hero and you pick that hero. Everyone flames you. Its like picking techies. Sure, you might say what the fuck and pick it but I don't see you constantly doing something you know that will make your team hate you.
every game.
Nobody wants to be flamed all game, so we will make a system that flames people to get the results I want......
Nobody wants to be flamed all game, so they stop picking things they are bad at and ruin the game for their team?
I already used your smurf-hate as an example. If you think letting people play their shitty heroes and ruin their teams games is okay, then you should have NOTHING against smurfs who technically are doing the same thing; being horrible.
Indeed, I'd really like this because maybe then people might differentiate unranked from ranked. And we'd finally have people practising heroes in the mode where your teammates aren't penalized as bad for you being horrible.
While it is a good idea in theory, I am with Sampson on this one. Hero stats don't really mean anything until you have close to a hundred games played on that hero, otherwise luck is just to big of a factor. As for showing the average mmr of a team, I think that would be even worse then showing each players mmr. Imagine that you enter a game and one of your team mates picks a mid hero and demands mid, he states "my MMR is 500 points higher then every one else's let me mid", but you have no idea if he is lying or not. The situation is the same as it as now, except some players will know for a fact that they are more skilled then their team but wont have any way of proving it to them.
I think it's easier to mute everyone until the game starts.
If you see me picking Nyx or Drow probably you'll think "Wow! This guy has over 70% winrate on one of his most played heroes! Epic!". It doesn't matter the heroes got nerfed since when I was playing them regularly, doesn't matter most of my wins with them are in "Normal" bracket. You'd expect me to be really good with them.
On the other hand, if I'd pick terrorblade you'll think I suck with him because I have very low KDA.
Edit: the problem with these statistics is that most people will misinterpreted them and cause unnecessary flame.
Remember kids, you get better at heroes by not only not playing them, but completely avoiding the role they fit.
Your logic is incredibly flawed hum.
Also not sure if you know what you're asking for with standard deviations...
1k, 3k, 2.9k, 2950,2.8k ~ 768
3k, 3.1k, 2.9k, 3.2k, 4.9k ~ 747
3k, 3350, 3250, 3330, 3280 ~ 126
1k, 3k, 2.1k, 1.9k, 2k ~ 636
5.5k, 4.5k, 4510, 4505, 4495 ~ 399
Sure you'll know if a stack is present, but you won't know if the stack is a high with a low or a low with a high. You may as well just have the game state "wild variance" if the deviation is above 20, it would be just as informative...and would mark pretty much every game above 4.5k with this.
Its what people do with those statistics that matter. Last hits and Average wards placed and blahblah can give you insights to what kind of player that person is. Anyway lets put this part aside because I'm highlighting the benefits while Sampson is highlighting the demerits, both of which are true.
I just personally feel stats being displayed and having stuff like a proper ladder system should be implemented because dota is a competitive game.
Anyway, I don't get what you're saying. If someone says I'm 500 points higher than everyone else, the ~Standard Deviation would show something like ~400. You would know if someone higher was present. Besides, noone would have any idea where they stand in that team, they would only know the potential for skill discrepancies. You could be 5k MMR but actually the lowest rated.
@Dipshit, it isn't meant to be something greatly informative. You just know whether or not your team is similarly rated. Something I very much would like to know because it really does affect games some times.
Anyway, go play unranked then. LoL has a system where only stats from Ranked Matches were displayed. You could practise without your stats being affected and without affecting other people's stats as well.
I'm just shooting off ideas left and right to show how stats can be implemented whilst minimising e-peen bullying.
You are aware that the whole "blue = highest mmr pink = lowest" is and has always been bullshit?
Dota is not a competitive game. Professional dota is a competitive game. If you want to have roles assigned based on suitability go 5stack. Otherwise, fuck off. All you're doing (by your own admission) is asking for an excuse to yell at people before creeps even spawn.
You are away that I know that and I was talking about HoN?
Dota is a competitive game. For people like you who do not wish to take it seriously, there exists unranked. Starcraft, LoL, Warcraft 3 and etc provided both unranked and ranked means of playing. If you want to play casually and not improve or strive to win, go unranked. Otherwise, fuck off. All you're doing (by your own admission) is asking for an excuse to play bad but have all your bad history hidden.
Dota currently has a mishmash of casual and more serious players in the same matchmaking. Putting a more competitive emphasis on Ranked might actually split the damn queues so casual players finally go play unranked.
another inaccurate thing to say by Autism Heathen
looking forward to the non existent proof of this one as well, but that won't happen.
@hum
you are extremely misguided if you think that pub dota is competitive(or that it has any intention of being). All Pick is even FARTHER from being competitive. Whatever think what you wish, most people can see the major flaw in your argument and there is no point in my highlighting it anymore I have to get back to work.
Thats because we apparently have different views on competitive.
I view it as people playing to win; maximising their chances by playing the 'right' way. Instead of 3 maelstrom snipers or no BkB carries. If you intend to fuck around and have fun, I deem that as NOT competitive. I don't have anything against that style of play and have played that way myself, but there should exist different matchmaking modes to suit different ways of playing.
Oh lawd the QQ has grown into full on cancer; Wave is here.
@hum: Nope! Had no idea you were talking about HoN. You didn't say anything about HoN in that post, and this isn't HoNBuff, so I assumed we were talking about some other game.
For a game to be competitive, there has to be competition - which by definition means there's some sort of prize. Those don't exist outside of tournaments; ergo pub Dota is not a competitive game. If you truly are serious about wanting to competitively play Dota, then enter a competition.
During the pick stage of a ranked game, they should not tell you anyone's mmr, but instead let you know where you stand out of the players on your team out of 5. That way you can carry/mid when you are the highest, and carry/mid when you are the lowest but at the end of the game you know you lost the game for your team instead of blaming them
talks about cancer but is one.
i was going to write a long detailed post but decided it's not worth the effort so i'll say you're autistic.
in your own words: "prize" - mmr. anything past that is irrelevant because of this one big fallacy you have. are your this retarded?
You might as well call pub COD a competitive game at that point because of how Prestige works.
well barber, they removed "blue" and "pink" being shown as highest MMR when they made it so you can see the MMR of other players. they should add it back again definitely.
look heathen, you're pretty much retarded and you strike as one of melody's irl friends.
Am I wrong? :) lots of inaccurate information and blatant shitposting from you
Because you didn't read the comments above and entered the topic to give a smartass comment that made you sound dumb. I'm trying my best to not judge your entire character based on that.
Anyway, you sound like a downright retard right now. Please go back to English school! Being competitive does not necessarily there has to be a prize. Say you see a class of children playing Pokemon. They'll all battling each other and trying their best to win, up to the point of grinding stats and natures, that is called competitive. Being competitive means you're going against someone and trying to win. There does not necessarily have to be a prize. Is there a prize? Technically, you could consider the win the prize.
I like how you completely ignored my marvellous response to you because you probably have nothing you can say.
no it was true, i was always blue/pink because queue was long, now it's randomized after you hit the accept button
Are you still talking about HoN? You mentioned it earlier in the thread and have indicated that I should just sort of know. I want to be clear here.
If the win is the prize, why isn't unranked competitive? People are competing to win, and their prize is winrate and KDA. And the kids aren't competitive. If they want to be competitive, they can go to their FLGS and compete in a Pokemon tournament. Those are still held regularly, with prizes and banlists and everything. Otherwise they're just fucking around.
Same with Magic: the Gathering. Kitchen table Magic is non competitive; sponsored events are competitive.
We have different definitions of what it means to be competitive. So as much as I snipe at you for little things (the HoN post) I am trying to be serious with you. Instituting any policy that somehow makes pub games MORE toxic in the name of nonexistent "competition" strikes me as wrong. You believe it will increase the chances of people doing what they "should" do, which sounds elitist and unfun. Fun pubs are the whole point of the game; its why we have a community that can raise $10 mil for TI.
"Are you still talking about HoN?
You came in and spouted a pointless fact because you thought I didn't know better. When in actual fact, you were the one who didn't know anything and came in assuming.
Anyway, win = MMR = prize.
Whether you care or not, plenty of people care about MMR. There exists an outlet for players who want to be casual, but the casual players don't go there... why? Because Valve has made ranked casual to the extent players can hide behind total anonymity. Their casial is ranked. But the very meaning of 'RANKED' is to play competitively.
For christ sake, Valve plasted the definition of Ranked above the Find Match button. It says 'competitive environment'. They're just too god dam fucking lazy or too worried about hurting e-peen to actually apply that definition.
I want you to go look at that post and think to yourself, "In context, what part of this looks like it's talking about HoN? I did mention HoN matchmaking 3 paragraphs ago in a different post, but after that I went back to talking about Dota...Oh it's this thing Sampson said. I wonder if that will get lost in the shuffle?"
Of course Valve is worried about pissing off their players. Having players (the majority of whom are 2k) is how they make money.
I understand caring about MMR. The problem I have with your solution is that it makes the game unfun for no gain. Players [think they] know what they're good at, and if they take Ranked seriously then they'll play to those strengths. If they don't take Ranked seriously and are picking based on something they just feel like playing...do you really think slapping a number next to their name will change their mind? They already know they're going to get flamed if they fuck up; that's how pubs work. Starting the flaming before creeps have spawned doesn't seem like a productive way to deal with that issue.
You'd still lose 50% of games at your mmr, except it would be less fun for some people.
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Given how much dota 2 is promoted as a competitive game, I am still baffled by the ability to hide statistic. I want to have an overview of my team's MMR as well as an overview of my team's stats before the game starts.