General Discussion

General DiscussionTreant Protector. Nature's Guise vs. Leech Seed discussion.

Treant Protector. Nature's Guise vs. Leech Seed discussion. in General Discussion
Mekarazium

    So. I'm gonna do some mathstuff here, because i got myself thinking. Once in a year.
    I know what 37 games with 70% wr will not impress anyone, but still - just want to share mine (trash) opinion.

    Lemme begin.

    I'll start with build.
    (note - first and second points can be changed, depending on situation)
    Actually - you're going for 3-2-3-2-3-4-2 build, getting Leech Seed on lvl1, if going for fb/haste rune/dd rune, and i can see this build in ~90% of Treant Players overall. Some months ago, i was practicing other build, and found it a bit more worthy.

    The build is... 3-2-3-1-3-4-1.
    Leech Seed vs Nature's Guise
    LS:
    [+] More Damage / Healing per levelling
    [+] Good slow entire game
    [+] Less CD per level

    [-] High Manacost(~40% of manapool)
    [-] Less utility, compared to Nature's Guise
    [-] Same Slow amount per level.

    NG:
    [+] Invisibility, you're forcing enemy to purchase Dusts/Sentries
    [+] Good scaling with low CD on lvl 4
    [+] 60 mp Manacost
    [+] Can be used to bait enemies into a trap, by hiding crucial teamfight character(ie. Enigma)
    [+] Can be used to scout the jungle, without risking your life(most of times)

    [-] 2 sec. Fadetime, people are just ignoring it.
    [-] Timing skills are required, to use this skill on it's full potential.

    So - LS is used often on laning phase, while NG is good for teamfights and ganks. Why i honestly think what NG > LS.

    1 - On lvl2 on NG, it creates a 60mp Invisibility rune, with 8 sec. cd, as long as you're near the tree. A lot easier to gank people and a lot easier to catch people off-guard. lvl1 NG invis time isn't enough to do a gank, just because those 13 seconds of active time.

    2 - Slow of LS isn't scaled per level, but damage is increased.
    LS 1 - 90 heal/dmg
    LS 2 - 180 heal/dmg
    LS 3 - 270 heal/dmg
    LS 4 - 360 heal/dmg

    Of course, some could say what levelling heal is a lot better, but here's the question: are you're fighting 24/7 to use this skill that frequently? Level 5 Treant got ~400 mp, meaning what you can give 3 LS, and leave without any mp. Now add the fact, what you will always use LA to heal your mid/offlaner or towers, meaning what maximum amount of mana you can have at this stage of the game is only 60-75%. It's 2 LS. Now add some random stuff, like more agressive pick from enemy team, and they're ready to turnaround. You don't have NG. Your carry is dead, and you're dead probably too.

    So.

    I'm not looking for anything >20 min timemark, since all >20min Treants are doing the same stuff all the time.
    Looking for other opinions, counterproofs and stuff.

    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/957888108

    Born

      honestly, in a pub game id go for seeds over guise. most of the time your team doesnt even realize you guised them or they dont make any use of it what so ever. and if they are willing to set up a gank with guise, a 1 level (on your enigma example you gave above) can work just as well.

      otherwise i usually go for leech, or keep them both even like, 2-2 3-3 4-4 depending on the lineup.