General DiscussionTHE SIMPLE REASON MATCHMAKING IS "BAD"

^see everyone knows MMR fluctuates a lot

You don't need to track its inaccurate over-corrections closely with DBR.

If Valve implemented a system that colour codes each players individual skill into the actual match ie blue is best player on radient pink on dire, I think it would help with the peoples perspective of unfair matching making. As the best players can take the more important roles and then perhaps the bronze players will listen to what the gold player has to say.
I only get pissed off in this game when someone takes mid and loses the game because they cannot do shit against the higher skilled opponent... and when people pick sniper as a hard carry.

^ brown mid ggwp abandon

Well, most 48% players I'm getting matched with are playing only carry. Most of them are better then me with carry/mid heroes and I'm better then them as support (aka I do my job). If I'm pink, you really think my team has better chance to win if I go mid?

match maker is shit and spread in players rating is just comical

Do you have a source on the color thing? I'm frequently pink but I assumed it was for no reason.

I actually felt I've been playing some pretty balanced games lately, and I'm 32 wins+
I've only been solo queueing for my past ~50 games

the problem is %99.9 of the players are bad

wtf r u talking about

even if i win alot i still get good players into my team average of 1000 wins each

enemy team same shit 1000-2000 wins each and all those games matters of who tryhard more and picks

most of those games decided by amount of supports usualy having wards and upgraded courier early results in easy wins cuz avoiding ganks and making kills easily

could you somehow use the stats gatehred on http://dota-academy.com/home/ to help with the very-high tier??

Adding up the player skill to form a team rating is simple absurd idea. The lowest skill player in one team is obviously playing a multiplier factor rather than adding up factor.

As is so, the player rating is more proper on a logarithmic curve. Which is obviously not the case.

This is exactly why the reason Valve refuses to implement rating by colours - problems with stack aside, people will just ask the "Brown Scum" to hard support, regardless of which roles he is better at.

In a team game like Dota it is more important to reduce opportunity cost. If the lowest rated player can only carry but some of the better rated players are decent at supporting, it might end up better than forcing the lowest rated player to only play support roles.

I kind of disagree on that.

Basic Support -> Buy wards.
Intermediate Support -> Stack and Pull.
Advanced Support -> Stack jungle camps for carry's farming.
Expert Support -> Do everything and still support your carry in lane, and don't feed.

BTW, I'm not saying you have to be an expert at DoTA, I'm saying supporting isn't really difficult. Of course you can get better in different ways, but it's a lot easier to do than other roles. As long as you accomplish these tasks, (and avoid feeding) you'll be OK.

A ganker has to know how to use smoke properly, when and where to gank, he has to watch all lanes and pay attention to people calling for help, maintain rune control, and avoid losing middle tower.

A carry has to have supreme last hitting, know the exact build he needs to go, and be able to react to counter his opponents. You can't just always build a Battlefury as AntiMage, nor can you just follow the recommended items either (BFry on BH? LELEOEL?)

Don't get me wrong, supports need skill too, just as much as anyone else. But the basics are much easier to master. If you give your "gold" player the support role. You'll have wards, you'll have stacked camps and everything. But your carry will build shitty items, half a horrendous CS, and suck in general. Then suddenly your Crystal Maiden is carrying the game. Then you remember Crystal Maiden can only beat Faceless Void for about 18 minutes before Void starts to roflstomp CM no matter how farmed she is.

Marlan, your analysis of the matchmaking algorithm is stated rather confidently for someone who hasn't seen it (and also for someone who obviously doesn't work anywhere near the mathematics used in statistical ranking). For example, while your example case of 5 ok players versus 4 shit and you plausibly happens every now and then, there is no reason to believe it will happen repeatedly. Also, you naively state the goal of the matchmaking algorithm is for everyone to have a 50% win rate when the actual goal is for each game to seem balanced alongside each game going one way or the other 50/50. In other words, you want a statistical statement of fairness to be true as well as the sensation that the matches were fair. The criterion of seeming balanced is actually quite interesting and lends itself to the stability of the match - how swiftly it swings one way or the other. For example, even if a match has a 50/50, if it accomplishes this probability through the inclusion of a huge newbie on both sides whose feed randomly 50/50 decides the game, then the match is rather unstable and decidedly "unfair" in feeling. Now, if these criteria are met, it is the RESULT that players will have win rates nearer to 50% the more they play, assuming the algorithm always finds matches it finds perfect and assuming the algorithm works well. So you see, it is the side effect from the true goal that you have stated as the goal.

>>>As you all know well, it will try and keep you at 50% MMR.
Wrong. Valve said so itself.
Didn't read the rest.

first what is the border line of silver and gold? Besides, some silver player did better than some gold player.

segregate wins and put in redeeming factors like KDA, average game length etc so games are more fair? ops valve can't into common sense

#valve

Just allow players to abandon an imbalanced game at like 7 to 9 min window. Solves everything. LOL

Yeah, no. Since it's released it's already bad enough with the quitters who abandon after 2 or 3 deaths. You'd hardly ever get a completed game because majority of the pub players are childish cunts who will just quit because the game isn't going their way. At least now when they quit they get LPQ'd

^^ Go play Dota WC3 version on garena, you will realise the true meaning of 'hardly ever getting a completed game'. Dota 2 is a huge improvement in terms of players abandoning games and the match making in general, however Valve cannot get rid of the retarded players who cause some of the player base to think that their matches are hugely unfair.
Shit games happen, so get over it.

^ go try hon they fixd russians + all hardcore retards are stuck with trash rating and btw shit games happen all the time unles you are very top of the ladder like vaikis or stack every game and if that isnt your case in 90% of games u get people that created new account from their 40%winrate 300wins mains won a few against completely new players and now you are stuck with them for 40minutes waiting for a loss

go check this thread
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=99591
those fuckin mm devs should die on the streets talentless pieces of shit

couldnt agree more @ ts. whenever my wr gets high,ill be with the noobies.and then when my wr's getting low ill be on the good team, i play solo mostly btw on normal mm.

also now i understand what eric tams meant when he wrote that new players are going to improve queue times for good players I am going to find that faggot quote on this later

mm's getting worse, omg valve what are you doing making more cosmetics than improving mm -_-

but one thing i got to give valve ;d game dodging is now way easier = = hidden wins or invoker/sf/pudge as top played heroes -> disconnect

i love too spot those bastards that are against dotabuff right from start

pudge/sf top most succesfull = dodge :D even tho i have sf as secodn most succesfull