PA's weakness is MKB. And the need of a bkb to be able to fight.
In dota 1 PA was great because was a bit harder to see while was chopping support heroes, but here, without bkb you are the first who gets nuked/disabled when fighting.
don't worry I'm not building this hero without Black King Bar, I get it instantly after Battlefury because in public games of this level fights are near the corner everywhere
I think I am skilled enough in farming, I just needed items opinions and when to pick the certain hero because I played her like 2-3 times in Dota 2 so yeah
when it comes to farm though I'm like XBOCT and I am really like him because I am agressive as fuck and throw the games sometimes
how is going Fraser?
try to get pers as fast as poss and spam dagger until u farm bkb, then depending on circumstance farm mkb first bkb second for fun build a satanic after
starting items tango salve stout or ring
if u think u will take a lot of ranged harass in ur lane go stout
upgrade ring to tranquil if taking harass otherwise convert to aquila
poormanshield is also good in tough lane
ur items at 10~ minutes should look something like phase aquila wand stout shield
if u can afford it and are farming battlefury is the best item u can get
u farm faster and aoe crits seriously own
battlefury into bkb is the best pub build
if ur getting pressured and ur team needs u or ur not farming that well its a good idea to get items like drums, sny, bkb, mkb in that order
The whole battlefury vs utility is a lategame vs early game thing. If you are confident that your team can hold for 20-28 mins on their own then the battlefury into massive DPS items is useful for a "I'm ready to go now" base rape. If things are going shit for you or your team do what some of the posters above suggested and help your damn team with utility builds or you will be running around with boots and battlefury till you eventually lose the game.
I have seen really boss PA's going :Boots, Vlads, SnY, Basher: and raping entire teams from the start. Battlefury is the most popular because of splash hits n' crits and flash farming, you just have to play it by ear each game instead of having a predetermined midset of how you are going to build or play out.
our mid lane gets raped
long lane gets raped
6/10min in game there are 3 or 4 enemies on my lane
no t1 at 10/12min mark
5 minutes later enemy knocks on t3
those games usually end around 30min mark
or way less likely scenario our mid wins our long lane wins my team can win 4v5 even without me doing a thing
For skills max dagger first, and use this to last hit in lane. Fast ring of basilius enables spam. Not an immediate item, but first after starting items. get level 1 blur at level 4, and max blink second to dagger.
For items, i like phase boots and vlads. then to either SB, or BKB. with SB you can escape safely. meaning more farm, escapes from teamfights. once you get this the floor is open. if you're able to farm another item the game will probably go in your favor.
Although if you can farm battlefury by ~14 minutes, it's worth it.
Ok I rarely say this but what the hell to the above. Shadow blade on PA? Are you for real? Last hitting with dagger only?
How about last hitting normally like an ordinary person would while using dagger to harass or pick up last hits you can't. NEVER get shadow blade on PA, you're spending 3000 gold on an escape mechanism when you have a blink and a slow which can also be used for ganking.
Maxing your dagger and blink over blur is much better as the cooldown and mana cost are greatly reduced which helps in lane more than a level 1 blur with small chance to avoid damage. She isn't void and can still be brought down but if you have a blink every few seconds due to maxing it you can get out and get back in quick if need be.
What you have emphasized in your post above is how to "escape". If you are needing max blink, shadow blade, and Black King Bar just to escape then you aren't an experienced player as you would have known how to position and wouldn't have been caught out in the first place. Though from time to time you will get caught out it is not worth spending 3000 + 3900 gold on items solely for the purpose of escaping.
Utility Build as suggested by a few others is: Boots, Drums, Vlads, SnY, Basher. You can get those items in 30 mins or sooner if you farm well enough and should be pressing the advantage instead of farming, hiding and escaping.
The items I described - valued at 12,200. It is possible but lets say 30-35 mins as the new meta game makes games quite fast to play out, farm, and you get higher gold from assists and kills.
Note: I am not even a good hard carry player and I avoid most hard carries for this reason. Its still possible if you have a good group of peeps to get farm and kills.
Again, shadow blade is good for some but it offers no legitimate reason for purchase as you aren't an initiator as much as some and anyone you would gank with a shadow blade/abyssal should be easy enough to take down solo anyways with the right items or in a straight up teamfight.
Shadow blade is an item used primarily for ganking, initiation and positioning prior to an initiative go in. If you are using it as an escape method you may as well just play riki or bounty hunter endlessly.
yes, ganking is pretty good strategy in pubs, i'd say it's a winning strategy. and how come i should play riki or gondar if i use it as an escape? you're a god damn retard if you don't use it as escape as well, it's half the use on pubs easily. even in first page games people don't carry constantly dusts or gems.
Getting shadow blade on her is like getting blink on QOP or Antimage. Its funny, may work in pubs but it is not in anyway core to the build.
You have escapes already - Blink
You have a slow to prevent you being chased or to chase - Stifling Dagger
You have evasion in teamfight - 40%
Most actual PA players will always grab up a BKB if against hard nukers or AOE controllers.
Putting it simple, if shadow blade on PA works in a game then it proves your oponents are so dumb that you could have won the game going normal items.
If it doesn't work that is because it isn't a viable option for her and you are being punished by better players for getting a nonsense item.
Having said that you have 4 games on PA with 2 carrying shadow blade, so I am unsure you are the end-all word on how to play PA or even to judgmentally tell me I don't understand how the game works.
There is no need to make any sort of reply, anyone who feels the need to call someone trash shouldn't be trying to debate with someone who is simply bringing facts to the table. This is a debate not an argument and as with most debates name calling is a sure fire way to pin out a loser who can't back up their debate with any factual or statistical elements.
Shadow blade is a good item for a pub game, I agree. It is not however NOT a good item on PA which is what this forum topic is about.
Dotabuff is a statistical platform which I simply used to point out that you had 4 games with a hero you are claiming I don't know anything about. The asthetics of the game are not news to me and I am well aware of the strategic benefits of a shadow blade but do not condone it on the hero this topic was about (in case you forgot in the haze of your ego stroking)
As a topic reminder (ABOUT PHANTOM ASSASSIN) not (ABOUT SHADOW BLADE IN PUBS)
My one and only account.
Possible your second or third account.
You have slightly over 400 games.
I have slightly under 2500.
You have a max of 22 games with your most played.
I average about 50-70 on the top 10-20.
Short answer your account doesn't have enough data or credibility as to the validity of the data to support your claim that you are better than me and again resorting to the "you're trash" or "I'm better than you" or "come 1v1 me" holds no sway as you have again moved away from the original topic.
Have you maintained an account since the beginning or did you recreate an account due to excessive bans for being a shit brick to people that you probably thought you were better than as well.
Your highest GPM is 800 which is laughable. I beat that on this smurf account in the very first game. And my main has over 1k GPM. Therefore you are clearly trash.
Yes that way i don't end up a 49% winrate trash like you :D
And no, clearly you english is not fine, i have stated that my GPM is >1000 on both this and my main account and having a best GPM of 800 after fuck knows how many games clearly shows that you can't farm to save your life.
Well DMX is totally wrong about PA if you consider organized teams, but as much as I dislike shadowblade he may be right that it is the best choice against nubs on any hero, even PA.
As far as who is better at dota...This is totally irrelevant, but in the interest of a reality check...really its not close. He is way way better than you Havoc Badger. 40 games might be considered a new account, but 400 is not. He has 73.6% win on 400 games? Seriously those are the stats of a pro player alias. More importantly his team is beating 4600 tMMR teams easily. He is at least as good as tier 3 pro players.
>Well DMX is totally wrong about PA if you consider organized teams, but as much as I dislike shadowblade he may be right that it is the best choice against nubs on any hero, even PA.
this thread never was about organized games. if someone asks advice on how to play a hero and it's not some "odd" hero like meepo or chen but an autoattack carry you assume he isn't playing at very high level. shadow blade is the best item on almost every hero in pubs and it's very strong even in comp, it was overpowered before the recent nerf i'd say.
what comes to my account, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. i've only made it because i got banned on my old one from steam in november or december. the old one got ~60% wr but i did stack far less on it than i've done on this one.
how i can see i'm better than you is relevant to you making dumbshit remarks about my account which nobody with half brain would do because private lobbies aren't registered in DB.
What does private lobbies have to do with any of this as I am sure countless people on this forum have played lobbies.
New account + stacking = good winrate. Everyone knows that and it doesn't somehow grant you a God complex to start calling other peoples account trash. When I had 600 games I had a much much higher winrate that I never cared about. Making a new account doesn't change the player you are it just enables you to start with a clean slate avoiding all the bugs and stupid events that shot so many peoples main accounts and their winrates down the tube.
Remember the greeviling event that killed a lot of peoples winrate? I do but your account would have missed that event. I loved that event a lot and the items it gave but my winrate shot down as a result.
Pick every almost every single reject on this forum or someone with a lower winrate that got shot down by new account braggers like yourself. I added them because the game is far more important to me than making a new account. and getting great stats just to turn around and become an insufferable dick to people on forums.
Shadow blade is a good item for pub stomping (I already confirmed what you said) but it is not a good item on PA.
jokes on you, events don't count toward "real stats". i would know because i played both of those events on the previous account.
and only low tier pub dumbshits who have never played a competitive/inhouse game in their life care about winrate so much that they need to make a 200 game account to show it off. there's no clean slate. nobody who's good at the game cares about winrate and at no point in this discussion i brought it up, it was Relentless that did. i pointed out that you have a 3k tmmr team which is beyond terrible and drew my conclusions from your posts that you are terrible as well. that's all.
i think i'm gonna stick to oneliners because arguing with dumb people about dumb stuff is annoying.
There are now 28,422 rated teams. I am really happy to see that many sub 2k teams have been added this past month. Everyone should play dota as a team game no matter their experience or skill. 3.3K is currently better than 65% of teams. Of course that is so far below your team DMX I see why you might think its terrible, but really its not.
DMX people would be much more willing to learn from your expertise if you did not throw in so many extra unnecessary insults.
i'm sorry, i get irritated easily. this discussion escalated anyway, my point was that sb is a good item on pa if you like to play her as more of a midgame carry and a fighter instead of farming first 30 minutes. it's all about playstyle and in Game of Pubs everything works.
PA's weakness is MKB. And the need of a bkb to be able to fight.
In dota 1 PA was great because was a bit harder to see while was chopping support heroes, but here, without bkb you are the first who gets nuked/disabled when fighting.
don't worry I'm not building this hero without Black King Bar, I get it instantly after Battlefury because in public games of this level fights are near the corner everywhere
http://dotabuff.com/players/135203366
Welcome back smurf boy
Shit Rob I thought you were skilled enough to play all the heroes without visiting forums for help. I'm disappointed.
I think I am skilled enough in farming, I just needed items opinions and when to pick the certain hero because I played her like 2-3 times in Dota 2 so yeah
when it comes to farm though I'm like XBOCT and I am really like him because I am agressive as fuck and throw the games sometimes
how is going Fraser?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/228060419 :P
yeah keep going, another 40 wins and you will break the 50% barrier!
I think the only way I'll get 50% is if im with someone to play with because I usually have teammates who try to make me lose at the 48.60% mark
try to get pers as fast as poss and spam dagger until u farm bkb, then depending on circumstance farm mkb first bkb second for fun build a satanic after
only fucking idiots get bkb first item.
starting items tango salve stout or ring
if u think u will take a lot of ranged harass in ur lane go stout
upgrade ring to tranquil if taking harass otherwise convert to aquila
poormanshield is also good in tough lane
ur items at 10~ minutes should look something like phase aquila wand stout shield
if u can afford it and are farming battlefury is the best item u can get
u farm faster and aoe crits seriously own
battlefury into bkb is the best pub build
if ur getting pressured and ur team needs u or ur not farming that well its a good idea to get items like drums, sny, bkb, mkb in that order
Don't like this hero. Although I used to play it and my advice is phase+drums+bkb+basher. BF is the lategame choice.
BF should be your early game choice because it speeds up your farming.
The whole battlefury vs utility is a lategame vs early game thing. If you are confident that your team can hold for 20-28 mins on their own then the battlefury into massive DPS items is useful for a "I'm ready to go now" base rape. If things are going shit for you or your team do what some of the posters above suggested and help your damn team with utility builds or you will be running around with boots and battlefury till you eventually lose the game.
I have seen really boss PA's going :Boots, Vlads, SnY, Basher: and raping entire teams from the start. Battlefury is the most popular because of splash hits n' crits and flash farming, you just have to play it by ear each game instead of having a predetermined midset of how you are going to build or play out.
you have to be absolutely braindead to get SnY on PA. But then again you are a 49% scrub so..
my experience with bf
our mid lane gets raped
long lane gets raped
6/10min in game there are 3 or 4 enemies on my lane
no t1 at 10/12min mark
5 minutes later enemy knocks on t3
those games usually end around 30min mark
or way less likely scenario our mid wins our long lane wins my team can win 4v5 even without me doing a thing
ya u dont need battlefury ..
i'm an experienced player and do like PA.
For skills max dagger first, and use this to last hit in lane. Fast ring of basilius enables spam. Not an immediate item, but first after starting items. get level 1 blur at level 4, and max blink second to dagger.
For items, i like phase boots and vlads. then to either SB, or BKB. with SB you can escape safely. meaning more farm, escapes from teamfights. once you get this the floor is open. if you're able to farm another item the game will probably go in your favor.
Although if you can farm battlefury by ~14 minutes, it's worth it.
Ok I rarely say this but what the hell to the above. Shadow blade on PA? Are you for real? Last hitting with dagger only?
How about last hitting normally like an ordinary person would while using dagger to harass or pick up last hits you can't. NEVER get shadow blade on PA, you're spending 3000 gold on an escape mechanism when you have a blink and a slow which can also be used for ganking.
Maxing your dagger and blink over blur is much better as the cooldown and mana cost are greatly reduced which helps in lane more than a level 1 blur with small chance to avoid damage. She isn't void and can still be brought down but if you have a blink every few seconds due to maxing it you can get out and get back in quick if need be.
What you have emphasized in your post above is how to "escape". If you are needing max blink, shadow blade, and Black King Bar just to escape then you aren't an experienced player as you would have known how to position and wouldn't have been caught out in the first place. Though from time to time you will get caught out it is not worth spending 3000 + 3900 gold on items solely for the purpose of escaping.
Utility Build as suggested by a few others is: Boots, Drums, Vlads, SnY, Basher. You can get those items in 30 mins or sooner if you farm well enough and should be pressing the advantage instead of farming, hiding and escaping.
If you don't max blur, why did you even pick Pa.
You will eventually max blur but one level in the early game gives you 20% evasion which is a good start.
1-2-1-3-1-4-2 thats how I would build her skill wise then after it is any ones choice really.
//Utility Build as suggested by a few others is: Boots, Drums, Vlads, SnY, Basher
In 30 minutes? You are mad bro.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/228908136 - 30 min items worth 13,975
The items I described - valued at 12,200. It is possible but lets say 30-35 mins as the new meta game makes games quite fast to play out, farm, and you get higher gold from assists and kills.
Note: I am not even a good hard carry player and I avoid most hard carries for this reason. Its still possible if you have a good group of peeps to get farm and kills.
The last time I played PA was this http://dotabuff.com/matches/226642838
shadow blade into abyssal is legit build and it's much more fun to play than battlefury afkfarming
Again, shadow blade is good for some but it offers no legitimate reason for purchase as you aren't an initiator as much as some and anyone you would gank with a shadow blade/abyssal should be easy enough to take down solo anyways with the right items or in a straight up teamfight.
i don't think you understand how this game works. sb isn't initation item.
Excuse me?
Shadow blade is an item used primarily for ganking, initiation and positioning prior to an initiative go in. If you are using it as an escape method you may as well just play riki or bounty hunter endlessly.
yes, ganking is pretty good strategy in pubs, i'd say it's a winning strategy. and how come i should play riki or gondar if i use it as an escape? you're a god damn retard if you don't use it as escape as well, it's half the use on pubs easily. even in first page games people don't carry constantly dusts or gems.
Getting shadow blade on her is like getting blink on QOP or Antimage. Its funny, may work in pubs but it is not in anyway core to the build.
You have escapes already - Blink
You have a slow to prevent you being chased or to chase - Stifling Dagger
You have evasion in teamfight - 40%
Most actual PA players will always grab up a BKB if against hard nukers or AOE controllers.
Putting it simple, if shadow blade on PA works in a game then it proves your oponents are so dumb that you could have won the game going normal items.
If it doesn't work that is because it isn't a viable option for her and you are being punished by better players for getting a nonsense item.
Having said that you have 4 games on PA with 2 carrying shadow blade, so I am unsure you are the end-all word on how to play PA or even to judgmentally tell me I don't understand how the game works.
http://dotabuff.com/players/114932084/matches?hero=phantom-assassin&game_mode=&match_type=real
i was actually going to make a serious repy but then you started bringing up dotabuff so i'm going to just say i ain't arguing with 3k tmmr trash.
ps. we were talking about pubs and shadow blade is one of the best if not the best item for pubs.
There is no need to make any sort of reply, anyone who feels the need to call someone trash shouldn't be trying to debate with someone who is simply bringing facts to the table. This is a debate not an argument and as with most debates name calling is a sure fire way to pin out a loser who can't back up their debate with any factual or statistical elements.
Shadow blade is a good item for a pub game, I agree. It is not however NOT a good item on PA which is what this forum topic is about.
Dotabuff is a statistical platform which I simply used to point out that you had 4 games with a hero you are claiming I don't know anything about. The asthetics of the game are not news to me and I am well aware of the strategic benefits of a shadow blade but do not condone it on the hero this topic was about (in case you forgot in the haze of your ego stroking)
As a topic reminder (ABOUT PHANTOM ASSASSIN) not (ABOUT SHADOW BLADE IN PUBS)
i'm bringing the fact out that i'm better than you at this game thus my opinion is more valid than yours
last game i played with pa
http://dotabuff.com/matches/33283665
but there was solo on the other team so i don't know if this game actually counts
He probably bet on you.
My one and only account.
Possible your second or third account.
You have slightly over 400 games.
I have slightly under 2500.
You have a max of 22 games with your most played.
I average about 50-70 on the top 10-20.
Short answer your account doesn't have enough data or credibility as to the validity of the data to support your claim that you are better than me and again resorting to the "you're trash" or "I'm better than you" or "come 1v1 me" holds no sway as you have again moved away from the original topic.
Have you maintained an account since the beginning or did you recreate an account due to excessive bans for being a shit brick to people that you probably thought you were better than as well.
Your highest GPM is 800 which is laughable. I beat that on this smurf account in the very first game. And my main has over 1k GPM. Therefore you are clearly trash.
Your account is laughable. 21 games, good going champ still fighting new players in normal queue?
Well clearly you can't read English, I suggest taking English lessons instead of sucking at dota.
I read English just fine, my response was valid and on point.
Its understandable why you would be proud though, playing the game in such a way as this...
"Never seen sniper players really. Cos i quit if some dickhead picks him."
Yes that way i don't end up a 49% winrate trash like you :D
And no, clearly you english is not fine, i have stated that my GPM is >1000 on both this and my main account and having a best GPM of 800 after fuck knows how many games clearly shows that you can't farm to save your life.
Well DMX is totally wrong about PA if you consider organized teams, but as much as I dislike shadowblade he may be right that it is the best choice against nubs on any hero, even PA.
As far as who is better at dota...This is totally irrelevant, but in the interest of a reality check...really its not close. He is way way better than you Havoc Badger. 40 games might be considered a new account, but 400 is not. He has 73.6% win on 400 games? Seriously those are the stats of a pro player alias. More importantly his team is beating 4600 tMMR teams easily. He is at least as good as tier 3 pro players.
Guess making a new account does really give people a misguided sense of being great.
as if people needed to make a new account for that
>Well DMX is totally wrong about PA if you consider organized teams, but as much as I dislike shadowblade he may be right that it is the best choice against nubs on any hero, even PA.
this thread never was about organized games. if someone asks advice on how to play a hero and it's not some "odd" hero like meepo or chen but an autoattack carry you assume he isn't playing at very high level. shadow blade is the best item on almost every hero in pubs and it's very strong even in comp, it was overpowered before the recent nerf i'd say.
what comes to my account, it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. i've only made it because i got banned on my old one from steam in november or december. the old one got ~60% wr but i did stack far less on it than i've done on this one.
how i can see i'm better than you is relevant to you making dumbshit remarks about my account which nobody with half brain would do because private lobbies aren't registered in DB.
What does private lobbies have to do with any of this as I am sure countless people on this forum have played lobbies.
New account + stacking = good winrate. Everyone knows that and it doesn't somehow grant you a God complex to start calling other peoples account trash. When I had 600 games I had a much much higher winrate that I never cared about. Making a new account doesn't change the player you are it just enables you to start with a clean slate avoiding all the bugs and stupid events that shot so many peoples main accounts and their winrates down the tube.
Remember the greeviling event that killed a lot of peoples winrate? I do but your account would have missed that event. I loved that event a lot and the items it gave but my winrate shot down as a result.
Pick every almost every single reject on this forum or someone with a lower winrate that got shot down by new account braggers like yourself. I added them because the game is far more important to me than making a new account. and getting great stats just to turn around and become an insufferable dick to people on forums.
Shadow blade is a good item for pub stomping (I already confirmed what you said) but it is not a good item on PA.
jokes on you, events don't count toward "real stats". i would know because i played both of those events on the previous account.
and only low tier pub dumbshits who have never played a competitive/inhouse game in their life care about winrate so much that they need to make a 200 game account to show it off. there's no clean slate. nobody who's good at the game cares about winrate and at no point in this discussion i brought it up, it was Relentless that did. i pointed out that you have a 3k tmmr team which is beyond terrible and drew my conclusions from your posts that you are terrible as well. that's all.
i think i'm gonna stick to oneliners because arguing with dumb people about dumb stuff is annoying.
Done arguing with you anyways you will just continue stroking your ego and I can't change that. Keep your one liners, they are poor at best.
kinda like your skill at this game
3K team MMR is average. 3056 to be specific.
There are now 28,422 rated teams. I am really happy to see that many sub 2k teams have been added this past month. Everyone should play dota as a team game no matter their experience or skill. 3.3K is currently better than 65% of teams. Of course that is so far below your team DMX I see why you might think its terrible, but really its not.
DMX people would be much more willing to learn from your expertise if you did not throw in so many extra unnecessary insults.
i'm sorry, i get irritated easily. this discussion escalated anyway, my point was that sb is a good item on pa if you like to play her as more of a midgame carry and a fighter instead of farming first 30 minutes. it's all about playstyle and in Game of Pubs everything works.