Analyzing The Difference Between 2k And 5k Supports
Looking at stats to tell the difference between certain skill levels is difficult for many players. The easy conclusion always seems to be “high skilled players just do x better,” even though the analysis can go much deeper than that.
Vision
Low MMR supports do a good job at purchasing Observer Wards. There is no denying that. Disregarding whether or not they actually place them well and use them to their fullest potential, the fact that they purchase them in sufficient amounts is good. It's a basic element of the game after all.
As important your own vision may be, decimating the enemy’s vision is just as important. Playing a game in total darkness, with next to 0 information outside of tower range is difficult. Vision means information, information can lead to security, and security allows one to take action, such as farming or ganking. Take away the vision, you take away everything that’s needed for farming or ganking in a safe environment. Surely you have experienced how difficult a game of Dota can be, when you have absolutely zero vision on the map.
On average, a 2k MMR player will buy roughly half the amount of Sentries a 5k MMR player would. If we now consider the amount of Observer Wards (8 average per game) purchased, it shows that the amount of Sentries purchased is not sufficient to reliably deal with the enemy's vision.
Item Efficiency
The lower the MMR of the support, the more farm they take away from their carries. The GPM that they have is partly the GPM their cores should have. This is not to say that the supports actively try to take away the cores farm. It’s natural for lower rated players on core positions to not farm efficiently, thus leaving farm left for their supports.
That said, supports in lower brackets do play greedier. Often times, supports will hold onto gold to purchase bigger items, instead of purchasing basic necessities for the team. Most of the time, the courier upgrade should have priority over Boots, something low level supports often don’t realize. Delaying an upgrade for another 1-2 minutes can decide the outcome of the other lanes.
There’s a reason why some pro players are famed for playing a “6th-8th position” support. They starve themselves out of necessity for the team, making sure to enable the rest of their team.
Arguments can be made that a poor support will hold the team back and that a Lion for example needs his Blink Dagger to function, and that is very well true, within reason. A Lion can very well go 20 minutes without a Blink, if he’s a solo support. Lower ranked players fail to understand the state of the game and when being starved is a natural thing, or whether it’s due to one’s own inefficiency.
Generally speaking, if there’s only one support, that support will, if the game isn’t a complete stomp, be rather poor and that is okay. Of course, the carries can help with purchasing items for vision, but that needs to be communicated.
Deaths & Gold Fed
Because lower ranked supports tend to be more farmed, the gold they feed upon death increases. Of course, almost every hero feeds more gold in the lower bracket; it’s natural granted the increasing amount of deaths. That said, supports have more responsibility in the lower bracket to not feed away that gold.
Everybody’s familiar with the phrase “space created.” It’s commonly seen as a meme/joke for whenever somebody dies, they created space. That is very well true in many cases, especially the higher skilled the player is. A player dying in the enemy backlines, providing information, drawing back multiple heroes, wasting a lot of the enemies’ time and barely losing any gold--that is how you truly create space. As a player, every death should have a reason behind it, and that reason should not be carelessness.
Dying to place an Observer Ward is less than ideal and should be prevented. Dying, because you were farming is the absolute worst for a support. Sure, that Blink Dagger or that Force Staff is important, but with proper map awareness, a support should be able to minimize the amount of times they die while farming. There are exceptions of course. Say the enemy just picked up their Blink Dagger for Batrider and decided to go for a smoke gank. Then you, as a support, want to be the target of that gank, if there needs to be one. There are also split pushing supports for example, such as Visage or even Shadow Demon, and this would very well fall under the category of space creating. Dying on the opposite side of the map from your team only counts as space creating though, if your team can actually use the time and space you bought.
Looking at the table to the right, it becomes obvious why dying as a support is so much more impactful in the lower brackets than in the upper brackets. Not only do supports die more, they also feed more gold per death.
Using stats to improve
Dota is a complex game, where everybody advances differently and everybody has different weaknesses to work on. While the patterns here may not apply to everybody, they do illustrate general problems that everybody can address--maybe not within themselves, but at least with teammates.
If, as a support, you feel you get a lot of farm, invest it wisely. Purchase defensive items that allow you to be difficult to kill and that can help teammates escape sticky situations. Be aware, that you are still a support, no matter how much farm you have. Don’t neglect warding and vision in general.
If you struggle to have money, put the need of the team first still. As long as you don’t put yourself at risk of dying too easily--walking around without Boots the entire game--it’s perfectly fine to starve yourself to enable your teammates. If you do wish to save up for a key item, communicate it to your teammates, inform them that you would prefer skipping a set of Wards & Sentries for a Force Staff etc. Not only will it keep them on alert, it will likely prevent you from seeing the dreaded “>We need Wards.”
There are many more things we can learn from raw stats about the differences between 2k and 5k players, and even more by looking at individual performances. It’s up to each player though to realize which of these things apply to themselves and where they can and want to improve.
2k scrubs
an FIRST
2nd !!!!!
3rd :(
Any noticeable trend in smoke ganks?
This offends me as a vegan transgender pos 7 who vapes and crossfits 4 times a week and im also a 2k feminist as I identify myself as a pastafarian apache helicopter dog mega multi combo god of hyper death and if you dont agree with me You're an ignorant arrogant globaphobic sexist lesbian
Why do you keep comparing <2k (people that are usually new players, or just peolple that don't take the game seriously) with >5k? You should compare at least >2/3k with >5k.
The difference between 2k and 3k is minimal. This is why I try to play support in my scrub matches.
I disagree with you completely over the greed part of this article as most of the normal bracket players I meet were less greedier than my high bracket players. Skills wise they are very different but in general normal supports and below 2k supports are not greedy rather high level supports are. It will logical be that since lower normal brackets supports feed more gold than higher level of supports that normal level supports are greedy but most of the lower level supports are not experienced supports and gets net worth in luck rather than deliberate cause but in high level support they are more experienced in the cost of their greediness.
@mukanshin:
I probably shouldve phrased it differently.
I think low level supports, from my experience, are greedy in the very wrong areas. They'll notoriously try and get those upgraded boots instead of providing vision after the laning stage or will look to complete an item, rather than still ward inbetween. "sorry I didn't buy wards, I wantzed to finish euls"
Generally speaking, yes, I do think higher bracket players play greedier, but they're also much more efficient at that, so I don't think, in relation to what their carries get, its really that greedy.
If I farm as a CM in 5k brackets (or upper 4k rather when I stack with a friend), it never harms my team or really detracts from my supporting (vision, close to teammate), whereas in lower brackets, their "greed" will detract from other things they should be doing (join teamfights or pushes etc)
2k supports i hope ur reading this
Nice article for a better Dota 2 world.
even 3k support often upgrade cour in 10 min mark :(
How about 2k vs 5k carry?
I have over 300 gpm and xpm with my Dazzle and I'm only 1k, I make sure I have wards for my team aswell, that's right. I'm a special snowflake
sub 2k you are lucky if you get a support hero picked, it's usually five carries vs five carries and whoever gets the smurf on their team wins ;D
I knew I was a 5k support:D
lmfao fucking Idegama.
nice nice
I mainly support and 99% of the time I buy boots + courier + 1 obs ward as my first item
Lel
As a lower-than-500MMR support, this article insults me.
Joke. Nice reading. :p
Sometimes 2K range have very suck carry, which force even a support hero had to get some farm. So they can tank, initiate, output damage and give kill to that carry. =/
2k power
I wish my supports in 5k plays like a 2k support. Underfarmed,feeding support holds the team back. This article is bullshit. Be good and farm that goddamn dagger as lion in min 16 pls forget the wards.
The major problem in 2K is carry. Support picked should get the medal
Actually, what going wrong with low level supports: People usually just don't know how to use their time and position on the map. They trying to steal creep on lane from cores instead of going pull neutrals and lasthit. They often forget about the possibilities to farm jungle, they often just go strait to base after teamfights instead of spend all of their mana for some farm and then go to full heal. They rarely check that if the team have full vision, no teamfights is going on and they MUST be farming and that moment too or at least try to apply some ganks. It also more about checking the map continiously in order to apply safe tp and help their cores.
I saw a lot of cases when people are buying wards but just remain in their inventory or stash for an incredible long time.
They are really rarely understand where wards should be placed in order to apply farm/ganks/teamfights push in the next 6 minutes.
Feeding is also related to the fact that people doesn't understand when and where to place ward. It always should be a safe action. No death allowed during warding, if enemy find support in their forest - they know there is ward here. you just give'em enough money to buy their own wards for free (cost you fed). Sometimes you even unable to reach the place for wards.
Warding should be only applied when you ganking together, smoking, after won teamfights or when you occupied some part of the map.
@Mid_8stack you are missing some scenarios where you have to ward , like 1)when your team decides to take rosh to provide your team the best vision of the area around the pit . 2) And to prevent a fight , usually in mid or late game to ensure your cores item progress and farm. As a 5 pos support player , playing in 5 k i see that some of your points about supporting arent that good
articles like this should be in the "learn" section of the dota2 main client, wich is actually pretty useless
the difference between 5k and 2k sups is in that 2k bitches steal exp from carry, never gank, for some reasons trying to rush mekansm, they are ultra passive and actually think that staying on lane with carry means "supporting". So they have 0 knowledge about dota at all
My ursa support is legit enough to surf in 2k pub scrubs. if my enemy all carry i only buy yellow ward. but if they have supp or can invis i also buy blue ward. My favorite item for ursa is force staff... cuz dagger is for babies
@ДРУЖИЩЕ
Add to this:
they don't just stay with the carry on safe lane, but they also usually go and die against enemy's stronger offlaners, so that your carry will be in a horrible position, then after they fed enough, they go away and blame the carry for being shit at farming.
Don't forget people who take there being a pos 5 support, as a pos 4 to farm items endlessly while leaving the other guy completely starved. This should not happen. A recent game had me buying vision all game to deward as well as against two invis heroes, while the ogre magi spent their gold getting, arc, lens, and eul, istead if items that actually benefit the team :\
@Nickps Even if you have to place the ward, there are always possibilities to make it in a safety way.
You're very welcome with you thoughts on what points should be extended, corrected and fixed
< incoming long post from a low level player, flaming is permitted >
I like this article, its a nice starting point for either getting better support play at low level, or just to have support at low level. It brings hope as I was considering making videos together with a friend to help supports increase and do better at lower brackets, as it is very very necessary. Mostly because its a pain to often find myself as solo support in a carry heavy team who are actually the problem. often as solo support it isnt possible to give the vision and space that a carry heavy team requires and the carries often dont adapt to that as they themselves also dont understand what a support should do for the team.
I also hope carry players at lower level get to read this because while I have no problem buying all wards, dust and gem when necessary, giving up my farm and kills for the team; in a team where players dont understand the division of roles and how far the team as a whole can go, starving yourself usually just causes net worth to go in your opponents favour.
This being said not everyone does this wrong, and there are quite a few variables in this discussion, but maybe with this article as a starting point, lower brackets can improve and supports can get the appreciation they deserve when they deserve it, and avoid the frustrations of getting spammed "we need wards" 3 seconds after just getting dewarded, by a carry who has 0/6 and is the reason they have the money to deward me and i dont have the space to do anything about it.
Again, not to say this applies to everyone, but as a support it is probably equally annoying to have a bad carry player as carry players claim from bad supports. partially i believe this is because the people who only play carry in lower brackets dont even see all the dynamics supports deal with from the get-go.
(for context) i primarily play support( gank/utility, but also core and healing), ranging from 1k to 3.XK mmr depending on which of my friends i play with, I will not say i am a good support, especially when comparing to higher levels, but I always do my best for the team and have adopted a few good habits that have really increased our team potential in terms of team items, vision and ganks.
having read the article a few times i think for lower levels the most important thing is to focus on item efficiency. vision is important and there are plenty of good guides for that online by the best of support pros, but very few people mention the scenarios in which you are 100 gold from an upgraded item, can see a teamfight will break out in the next 2 minutes, and therefore first spend money of all warding, and then take the teamfight to catch up the invested money to complete it after you have won the engagement or avoided the engagement because your vision and map awareness were better than your opponents.
let the flaming of my opinion begin :D
It does make me laugh how many people flame these "2k Scrubs" in the comments, but haven't played anything other than normal skill on their profiles... Pot, kettle and black spring to mind!
That moment when u buy 30ward & 20sentri as a solo support in a 50min games & ur Cores/carries are shit , tell me about 2k support life pls
@Pen Pineapple Apple Pen 4 melee heroes agains void man, shit just happen, don't give up or tilt with this shit and you will be fine
One of the most relevant articles as far as I'm concerned (2k support here). Other supports in my bracket (including my friends) barely ward and would usually prioritize their items on top of the core's. Because of that, you'd usually find self-proclaimed "pro supports" to be more farmed than their cores and inevitably lose the game because they fall weak into the mid to late game.
i see "< 2k". the less than sign. Does this mean below 2k?
more support
@kijknietlinks
I kinda agree with a lot of your points.
It's true that a carry has a more straight forward role by concept than a support, so it's safe to assume that ~2k carries orientated people have even less knowledge about the whole game mechanics than a support does.
That is of course speaking generally, with loads of exceptions on both sides.
"I need farm too" most of 2k supports will try to fight for cs in lane n almost nvr ever try to stacks camp on their free time, as a carry thts just feels like a 3v1 situation every time (2 offlaners always), but of course i did try supporting n the carry seems to be clueless of his own role
I have a friend who originally is 3.7k mmr, but due to TI Rank, his rank boost up to 7.3k (Now only 7.2k since i saw he lost some games and didn't play ranked anymore). His ID is 349477814. And that's all his play effort without renting a booster. What's ur opinion about this?
@Chimi-Cherry-Changa
you are absolutely right that there are some assumptions and generalizations in what i posted, and definitely a bit of bitterness for the treatment of supports by teams who fail on a team level, not necessarily individual level. But im glad to see there are other support players who see the grey areas and speak out on the things that matter for teamplay. so thanks, it means a lot to know many supports know the same struggle. that being said i do look forward to the development of support meta.
@cheese burger
i used to play with a friend who supported like that and as a fellow support its kinda annoying too, its technically not untrue, but supports have plenty of places to get money. jungle as mentioned, but mostly it should be from assists in ganks or teamfight ( to me it also feels like that is a more natural way to grow both individual and team net worth. although i do wanna say that there have been plenty of situations where ive asked a creep for myself of a wave, in cases where the team needed sentry, dust, gem or a core lane item for my carry like mana boots if im really close) .
getting your money from assist should in many ways also feel more natural to the carry; "if as a support your doing your job well the carry shouldnt even notice youre there" sort of thinking. its a bit of a harsh generalization but basically its true.
also im glad to hear the point of view from the carry player, as in an actual game, this kind of discussion quickly escalates to "your mom" level rather quick. And i think you make a good point that trying the different roles is essential to understanding the different parts of the game.
Also sorry for hogging so much post space, this topic intrigues me greatly and i appreciate the chance to discuss support meta with people from different roles and skill/knowledge levels.
It's fake <2k nobody plays supports
worst things happened in 2k bracket was , when u play as support n poor , those so called carry will blame u cuz u're poor. plus, even when the OW cool down, they still spamming for ward. wtf. while defending highground, they still expecting the support to roam around n placing ward. so mostly 2k carry is definitely shit. #bad english lmao
this is so unfair for sup, 2k carries are any better than the sup? no shit
is that ward graph thing right? Me and one of my friends play as a support (i play winter wyvern) and we almost always buy around 20 observer wards and up to 10 sentry wards if they have a riki or something. Unless its wards per minute or something like that
Play in SEA. You can seldom see supports coz most guys wants to be a carry.😂
I play supp my whole dota life and IMO the problem with <2k game is everybody wanna carry, they dont want 0/3/15 on their profile, everybody want to be Miracle and when we already giving them a vision, none of them saw minimap. And if somehow we manage to win a game, they'll be the loudest trash talker you'll ever met