General Discussion

General DiscussionWhy do you Smurf/Boost and what can be done with it from the demand end?

Why do you Smurf/Boost and what can be done with it from the demand end? in General Discussion
SayingPleaseHelps

    After the recent matchmaking update merged solo and party ratings, enabling various abuses and destabilising the traditional order of things, the problem of smurfs and boosters seems to have gotten worse than usual. Reddit is awash with complaints and even Valve themselves mentioned smurfing and boosting as core points in their latest blogpost http://blog.dota2.com/2019/09/matchmaking-update-for-the-next-ranked-season/.

    And while they outlined a number of prohibitive and punitive measures that seem reasonable and can somewhat work, lots of people will remember how phone authentication did not solve the problem, and if you look at other competitive multiplayer games (all of which have the same problem to some extent), it's likely that smurfing and boosting can never be properly solved. Because if there is a demand, supply will follow, no matter how hard the punitive measures are (and, really, how hard can they be over the Internet?).

    So can this be addressed from the demand end? Is it possible for Valve or the Dota community at large (don't laugh, miracle-s happen) to adjust the gamestate and metagame state to the point where significantly less people will feel the need to smurf and buy boosted accounts? I don't know, honestly. And judging by the vague limpdicked language of the blogpost Valve does not know either. But if it can be figured out, then by whom if not the dedicated community of Dotabuff forum users!

    Which brings me to my actual point - why do you smurf? As in:
    I) If you did smurf or use boosted accounts what were the reasons for it and what was the threshold for switching between your main and alt accounts?

    It would be of course terribly uncharitable of me to assume any of the esteemed Dotabuff forum users are currently involved in these inhumane practices but feel free to lump your current experiences here as well. A perspective of an actual economically sustainable booster would be invaluable, not naming names or anything, but still.

    If you do not have any personal experience of being a ruiner of matchmaking algorithm, don't fret, hypotheticals are also useful, especially to determine the cutoff threshold, therefore:
    II) If you did consider creating a smurf or buying a boosted account, what were the reasons for such considerations and what were the cons that ultimately stopped you?

    If you are indeed a matchfinding saint who never ruined games through knowingly abusing faults in MMR system instead of the regular flaming, autopiloting and diving the fountain, and additionally you know yourself really well while willing to test your imagination:
    III) What conditions have to be met to prompt you to create a smurf or buy a boosted account

    I don't know of what usefulness this questionnaire will be, but if enough people participate it is possible some obvious pattern will be revealed, suggesting an attainable solution and, considering Valve has, like, 5 people working on Dota at any given time, it would be a pattern unknown to them for sure.

    I'll start with an example of my own:
    1) I created a new account to party with a lower ranked friend because I was deeply unhappy with unviability of Sniper mid on my main account (unless you build Force->BKB first two items, but then it's just unfun). Since my friend grew less interested in Dota and as Troll-Sniper meta revealed my fascination with Sniper mid to be misguided I stopped using it altogether after maybe a hundred matches played.

    Edit: current headcount:
    Facilitating playing with friends - 5
    Troubles in current rank - 3
    Trying to recalibrate higher - 3
    Low risk practice - 6
    Escaping liong queues - 5
    Stomping newbies is fun - 7
    Consequenceless toxicity - 3

    Este tópico foi editado
    Kowareta

      im playing on my 2k acc for 2 reasons, practicing new heroes or unplayble games on my main

      Este comentário foi editado
      ⱤenS̩hin

        Made this new account because I sold my main account. And im aiming to calibrate low to play with my herald friends.

        BLACC king bar

          dat formatting tho

          ok

            I think I was stuck in 1k mmr for 3 years because I just tilt too much and try to play normal dota when people don't even care about minimap
            so I made this account, being drunk half of the time, spamming pos5 queue despite having garbage habits and landed at 2500 MMR. 1500 higher than my main. The quality of the matches is way, way higher.

            VISHNU

              ^it's probably because no one wants to play such beta position as pos 5.

              ok

                yeah I sure want to get back to the ol' 5 carries 1k mmr strat into no vision ever
                I'm reformed, I don't care about KDA, being insulted or whatever
                I just want to help my team and win even if they don't really deserves it

                SayingPleaseHelps

                  unplayble games on my main

                  Can you elaborate on this one? What makes them unplayable and what specifically makes you switch?

                  Feachairu

                    haha you fool, smurfing is fun, you get to play 1v9 dota bery nice

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                    Feachairu

                      do the acting properly if you wanna try this retad

                      Feachairu

                        I no acting ty

                        Lex

                          Lol its just for having fun and not tryharding.

                          Kowareta

                            Can you elaborate on this one? What makes them unplayable and what specifically makes you switch?

                            dropping behavior score, cause every fucing ranked game ppl report u no matter what or gaben rigged matchamking
                            as u can see now, after winstreak now im struggling with animal midlaner who have 33% winate with alch and he thinks his team is the problem :))

                            Este comentário foi editado
                            Take my whores to the hot...

                              This was my smurf account now my old Main is my smurf. Took this account from 3500 - 4800 in 20 Days. Did it to practice io but was so easy to win.

                              SayingPleaseHelps

                                Did it to practice io but was so easy to win.

                                I understand that a bit of bragging is in order, but can you actually say something about what made you start a smurf to begin with?

                                ⱤenS̩hin

                                  Because smurfing is fun. It allows you to practice most heroes you wont dare touch in your main acc and play them at a lower level to learn how to play them without feeding and getting reported.

                                  SayingPleaseHelps

                                    Lol its just for having fun and not tryharding.

                                    Well, fun is relative, so to properly understand your position I will need to know what made playing on your main not fun.

                                    SayingPleaseHelps

                                      @ⱤenS̩hin

                                      Made this new account because I sold my main account

                                      Because smurfing is fun

                                      Conflicting testimony here. Can you elaborate?

                                      V J1vag0

                                        The problem that makes people create another account to play ranked is because the search time for matches is too long and boring, for example here 4.8k mmr account is taking 20 minutes on average to find out that people still don't accept, then we will again 20 minutes seeking , on the other side there are people who make it from smurfing to take it about 6k in mmr and resell it for about $ 300, the guys who do streamer all day long doing it a lot is their way of paying the bills

                                        ⱤenS̩hin

                                          Like I said, Sold my main acc.(this was 2 years ago). Only now recently made this account due to me finally having some time. I could have asked some of my friends for spare accounts close to my peak mmr range (4.8k-5k), but then I thought, would I want to go through the pain/stress of climbing mmr again?, nah fuck that. So I made this smurf which served a double purpose, to calibrate this smurf to herald and play with my herald friends(SoM classmates) to teach them and ofc play dota at a low level to practice some heroes I never got to play in my main while having fun.

                                          Este comentário foi editado
                                          SayingPleaseHelps

                                            @ⱤenS̩hin

                                            k, so you go into both "Facilitating playing with friends" and "Practicing new heroes" categories.

                                            ShiftingSkys

                                              I did it to practice heroes and wonky Builds. That plus asprevious posters mentioned when you hit like 4k+ The queue times go way up and the games are a lot more intense- Especially once you start pushing that 5k envelope. It just takes a lot more work to win game. I can solo queue as a 4.5k player and get Immortal960, Ancient 2, Divine 1, Ancient 7, Ancient 4. on enemy team and the Immortal960 Plays his Main ember. Dodges every single spell with sleight including glimpse EVERY TIME and just dumpsters the Mid then us for 30 min. He might as well be smurfing since out Ancient 5 Middle loses to him pretty hard since he got to counter pick. Its funny when Low Legends and lower complain about the games because they are soo easy. The players in that are absolutely hopeless. You can win the most retarded games because players don't have a clue how to win. That is why smurfing is fun. Though kudos to Valves detection. After roughly 20 games it was already starting to bump me into VHS and when doing the calibration matches my first 3 were loaded with Ancient 4-Divine 4 which is about what my main would land me. Needless to say after 120 games my smurf is useless- Same rank as the Main.

                                              A Wild Pikachu Has Appeared!

                                                Valve can never stop players from creating smurf accounts, there will always be some smurfs/boosted accounts somewhere, just only how much is the %.

                                                SayingPleaseHelps

                                                  Valve can never stop players from creating smurf accounts, there will always be some smurfs/boosted accounts somewhere, just only how much is the %.

                                                  That is exactly my point. So I seek instead to figure out how can they make playing on your main so enjoyable that most ppl will not be interested in smurfing/accbuying.

                                                  Boundless

                                                    I made 2 alt accounts, back about 3 or 4 years ago. My first alt account was because I was stuck at around 3.5k mmr, and got my alt calibrated to 4.8k. So I did the first "smurf" because I got mmr stagnation. After they introduced TI ranked recalibration, I simply recalibrated my main and moved back to it.

                                                    The second smurf was to help bring through some friends who had serious ranked fears, so I played mid and helped my friends get more confident and gave them advice on how to improve after each game, and try to support them emotionally so they can play without me. Anyway this was before the days that ranked matchmaking needed a phone number. I didn't bother afterwards. These days I use unranked and turbos to bring through newb friends anyway.

                                                    Tashikametai Nukumori

                                                      I can't win on main cause I get smurfed on by 6k players, so I just terrorize the 3k bracket instead.

                                                      Boundless

                                                        Is that why your winrate is so ridiculous? :P

                                                        LegendaryHD

                                                          I can't win on main cause I get smurfed on by 6k players, so I just terrorize the 3k bracket instead.

                                                          So scary.

                                                          rena

                                                            I can't win on main cause I get smurfed on by 6k players, so I just terrorize the 3k bracket instead.

                                                            D:

                                                            ok

                                                              I can't win on main cause I get smurfed on by 6k players, so I just terrorize the 3k bracket instead

                                                              not very cash money of you

                                                              ETdAWESOME

                                                                I can't win on main cause I get smurfed on by 6k players, so I just terrorize the 3k bracket instead.

                                                                It's like that saying, bullies create bullies. People who grow up with abusive parents are more likely to be bullies in school in shit.
                                                                Smurfing is just an endless cycle with inflates and deflates people from their true ranks.

                                                                LegendaryHD

                                                                  It's like that saying, bullies create bullies. People who grow up with abusive parents are more likely to be bullies in school in shit.
                                                                  Smurfing is just an endless cycle with inflates and deflates people from their true ranks.

                                                                  Feachairu

                                                                    u f00ls dis patricia is 7.2k smurf

                                                                    LegendaryHD


                                                                      If you understand this picture then we're bros.

                                                                      atium

                                                                        my main account is thousands of mmr above my skill level and i dont have the time to be that good anymore

                                                                        ok

                                                                          i dont have the time to be that good anymore

                                                                          https://www.dotabuff.com/players/976479238/activity
                                                                          yet you still play 3-5h per day

                                                                          Tashikametai Nukumori

                                                                            @lantern of dreams
                                                                            I play normal queue 5 stack that's why my winrate is gud lul
                                                                            I literally can't win soloq cause I'm garbage

                                                                            Boundless

                                                                              I highly doubt you're garbage. Your numbers are too good for that. Good kda, good farm, good winrate, high winrate with all friends this week.

                                                                              Overrated? Perhaps, I could believe that. Maybe you secretly play with 4 smurfs in your stack. But "garbage" doesn't fit with my perception.

                                                                              Now you may say that your stack is so good that you never have pressured games as a carry and thus you always have the easiest role- carry with a free map. So that's why I say you should spend a month or two playing nothing but support in your 5 man stack. I promise you with work, you'll become so much better of a player, and your core gameplay will improve too.

                                                                              Regardless, I believe you are misattributing your solo queue losses to the wrong factor- namely you. Maybe it's because you communicate better and teamwork better, whilst solo queue generally rewards solo skills and individual plays more than effective teamwork (at least till immortal and beyond). Maybe there are certain skillsets to acquire in order to be successful in solo queue. But I think positively about the fact that you are willing to look at yourself and critique it for your poor solo queue winrate, and you should see it as a positive too, and keep working at what you've already got.

                                                                              BLACC king bar

                                                                                Fuk smurfs so hard to win......

                                                                                Tashikametai Nukumori

                                                                                  I mean we lost a bunch of ranked as 5 too- it's why we play normal.
                                                                                  I think one of them went from 5.9 to 5.2 which is really depressing. I can't really motivate myself to play soloq nowadays but I played pos5 the last time I did and both games looked really bad
                                                                                  https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4984522125
                                                                                  https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4984610649

                                                                                  severe

                                                                                    I don't, because there's no enjoyment playing vs lesser skilled players
                                                                                    anyone smurfing for any reason other than 10 hour queues can go fuck themselves

                                                                                    atium

                                                                                      bro i used to play dota 12h 7 days a week consecutively, 3h on weekday and 10 on weekend is nothing

                                                                                      also i have 1 test every month until july... leading up to the test i cant play as much even

                                                                                      and my sleep is lower quality because i have to wakeup at 430 and am not out of work until 3-4pm, then 2h homework. this makes my play even worse

                                                                                      Boundless

                                                                                        @Tsuya

                                                                                        I play normal too occasionally, smurfing in stacks has become so much more of an issue since they merged party and solo.

                                                                                        Learning a new role is always gonna be tough, and support is so much more difficult than most to start off, because you have no farm and you'll just keep dying. But that's how we learn ;)

                                                                                        Well, sure, dropping 700 mmr isn't fun, but anyone who was basically 6k can climb back up there with the correct motivation. And in any game between humans, motivation and psychology is half the battle

                                                                                        SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                          @latrommi

                                                                                          i dont have the time to be that good anymore

                                                                                          but
                                                                                          yet you still play 3-5h per day

                                                                                          So I will be correct to put you into "Stomping newbies is fun" then?

                                                                                          atium

                                                                                            do whatever you want. it's not like i'm going to be spending much more than 100 games in the 2k-3k region

                                                                                            19

                                                                                              I have mental issues,otherwise i wouldn't ,im working on it tho,i deleted all my steam accounts,i had severe case of smurfing addiction,i have 3 accounts left,this one,5k,4.4k.
                                                                                              I will delete the 5k and keep the 4.4k one for the future and stick to playing on this account.

                                                                                              SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                                @latrommi

                                                                                                do whatever you want

                                                                                                I can't, I have to kkep it as accurate as is reasonably possible. Your testimony has some contradictions in it though, so if you can elaborate on what prompted you to create your smurf and what is the threshold that forces you to switch between playing on your main and smurf, that would be super awesome.

                                                                                                SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                                  @19

                                                                                                  I have mental issues

                                                                                                  Here, on this veritable bastion of mental stability of a forum? I don't believe it. If you could explain what is the positive reinforcement that caused your addiction, that'd be very useful.

                                                                                                  19

                                                                                                    im not very handy with words,but i was in last year of high school at that time,was seriosly depressed,dota 2 was my only thing i had,so i would play 24/7,and i would make constantly smurfs to cope with my life,as soon as i got bored from one account,i would switch.
                                                                                                    I've ruined plenty of games,low behavior score is hell.
                                                                                                    But nowdays im fine,i deleted all my steam accounts (10+) and sold 4-5 accounts,and now im playing on this account strictly.
                                                                                                    I took a break from dota from like 2018 september to May 2019,so i got a good outside persepctive on how i should be as a player and person overall.

                                                                                                    SayingPleaseHelps

                                                                                                      @19

                                                                                                      Well, this seems to be a rare outlier then, but still, what exactly was making you bored with different accounts and forcing a switch?

                                                                                                      atium

                                                                                                        i had one that stopped at 5k and one that stopped at 5900. my main acc is at 5800 now

                                                                                                        the first one I made to see if I was “actually” 5k or if I got carried, the second one was pretty much the same for when I hit 6k flat, which was my peak

                                                                                                        I’ll probably switch from this to my main if I hit 5500ish