People are weird. Blaming someone for using certain tactics to get to the 6k is just dumb.
First of all, I play quite often with Cookie and he literally can play at leat 30-40 heroes outside of his what you call "limited" hero-pool.
The guy can play Meepo, Clinkz, Arc Warden, insanly good Antimage, Jugg even heroes such as Lina, Brood, PL and many more.
I find it insanly disturbing that people actually get triggered so much over the fact someone's better than you.
He's actually right when he said that he's MOST LIKELY more intelligent than the average worm here, coinsidering the fact average youth of the Dotabuff poster is about 13 to 15 years old.
What I don't understand is, how can you blame someone for using certain way of archiving something if it's not cheating? What I find it even more confusing is the fact that someone said: "well he try-harded". No - he didn't try hard actually.(and even if he did, it's non of your fucking buisness) I dare to say I know Cookie probably better than any of you and I'll tell you - he just likes the game and therefore manages his time smart to actually get better at it, and unlike any of you, HELP PEOPLE FOR FREE, u fucking unthankful egoistic pieces of shit.
If actually any of you tried to get good at this game you would understand what Cookie was trying to say, but unlike him, what you want is get into a circlejerk and just act like a fucking uncontained moneys for no apparent reason.
Instead of listening to one another like a fucking retarded animals - use your brain instead for once.
At least I'm fucking aware I suck and I don't try to talk shit to other when it comes to Dota - because I'm fucking aware I don't want to dedicate myself fully and get better at it, because DOTA requieres a fucking dedication.
You fucking retards are just trying to blame someone because you're buthurt and you probably don't even realize you are. Holy fking shit.
Oh, and before you actually start writing with your tiny little hands how years of certain individual have nothing to do with how inteligent he is - it actually does ,because if you're 13 years old you know shit about life, and if you're acting like this, then means your parents actually did an awful fucking job.
Btw, just to clear things up - there's a big difference between being dedicated at something and tryharding at something.
exactly,i don't understand why would you diss someone who's answering stuff to people
man,he's just trying to help
if you think he talk retarded you can argue,but not carrying it up till several threads or untill your death
those are the basics, the overall idea is that: different parts of the map have different values to a lineup, and it actually matters where you make a play (flight, push, gank etc.).
take my explanation as you wish, as there's a lot more to it if you think about it.
One big important part about that statement is the lineup, as i don't see 4-5k players use their teammates like this. While they can press buttons when they see an enemy, they don't know why they're pressing those buttons, which is probably the biggest problem any 4-5k can have - great mechanics, but no strategy.
edit: the lineup itself matters a lot here, a carry clinkz won't care about losing his safelane tower, but an antimage will.
the 2nd most important part is the location itself
What everyone should know is once you make a play, it forces a reaction out of the enemies, that reaction can be anything from counter ganking, ignoring that area, warding or even making a play on the other side.
So when you make that rotation you have to anticipate the reaction to that rotation, and what does it mean.
And this is why the location part is important, i'll give some examples.
If you keep your supports in the safelane trying to gank the offlaner too much what will end up happening is the enemy mid and carry will get farmed enough such that the enemy supports are now free to do as they wish, as they don't have to help their team, so they will now come to annoy your carry instead.
The reason for that is that your team made a play on a part of the map: ganking the offlaner
the enemy made a reaction: bring the supports to the offlane.
So you trying to help get your carry fed by killing offlaner made his life now a living hell 2 minutes into the future as the enemy supports won't stop pounding his ass.
here's another example, same as the example of shoving the wave as an offlaner:
The idea is very simple, all he did is push the wave into the enemy tower
But this will cause a reaction, aka enemy show up to defend/farm under t2, and given that reaction you'll know where the rest of the enemy is. The enemy has to show up and de-push, who shows and how many of them will tell you where the rest are if you understand roles and positions.
But what if they don't show up? No one will just let waves destroy their tower for free, UNLESS they're actually doing something else like smoke, push or rosh. And them not showing up will give you the exact same amount of information to where they are as if they were to show up, then you play accordingly.
The last part is the implications of taking a tower, a tower serves 2 big purposes, providing vision/depush but more importantly a place to teleport. Once you take a tower you will lose the ability to farm some camps around it.
The easiest example would be the t1 safelane tower, it owns the easy and hard camp next to it, and obviously any wave in that area. Once that tower is dead - anyone farming that area has a death wish. As their teammates will not be able to TP and save them.
And one small part is once you do take a tower you want to put vision deeper into the enemy jungle, to see rotations to make sure that you actually own that area. Just taking a tower is simply not enough most of the time, as you need vision deeper into their territory to see the rotations coming from a further place to save someone who was farming where the lost tower is, so for that example of taking t1 safelane tower - you'd be putting a ward on the shrine area or the cliff between t2 mid and t2 safelane tower to see rotations from there.
So overall it can have any consequences possible, what you do and where determines how the game is gonna flow for the next couple of minutes, knowing this in advance gives you a huge advantage over your opponent, but also requires that you understand what your opponent wants and needs to do and how do you compare to that, because you could just as easily end up throwing him all your advantage.
This is the simplest way i can think of explaining it, there's a lot more to it, as it's quite difficult to explain given more complicated scenarios and all 5 heroes doing it actively in an even higher game, and requires quite decent gamesense and map awareness. And you need to build up on the idea on your own.
There's 2 ways you can build this up, 1# is always the best way which is analyzing really high players (top 100) or if you're lazy and want to half ass it then just thinking ''hey if we play in this area of the map, what is gonna happen in the next 30 seconds, and more importantla a couple of minutes down the line".
p.s something i do want to note, this is a team strategy, and one of the reasons that climbing from 5k to 6k would be easy, (or at least was for me) because i realized i could use my team to do this for me, i'll call the rotation and we do it as a team (they don't have to understand why we're doing it, but they'll do it for me regardless), makes life a lot easier.
so long story short 4-5k rotations are random, there's no real purpose to them, from the simplest things like taking a camp or pushing a wave up to the biggest things like taking a teamfight or rosh. They only do it for the sake of doing something with their time, not because those things matter to them in the long run.
the praise and recognition from a player who had his mmr times two amount of games to learn only to end up in 3k(without any hopes of leaving the bracket in observable furute) tells u volumes about cookies gift of coaching
🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩 bro i did not say you know or not know those things, i mention you as a reference to explain my argument. cause if there is 1 thing that i know for sure about you is that you used the easiest ( maybe most efficent ) way to climb mmr. by playing certain heroes, which people have a lot of strugel to deal with them even in high mmr. all that stuf you explained is not that all of 4k- 5k players dont know, they are a lot of 4-5j who probably knows that stuff and some of 6k who dont know, it doesnt mean shit. if your dedicated to achieve that mmr ( for any reason ) the way you did is the eaiest to do it, cause of all that shit that you explained . prety basic stuff tho .
thats why playing those solo heroes that can ez split the map and force reaction by theyr own is prety much a fre win ,cause people in the oposite side need to coordinate and work as a team to stop, you. it doesnt mean that your better than them, or that they dont know how to deal with you it's just harder for them cause they need theyr team to know they role exactly to make it work.
p.s something i do want to note, this is a team strategy, and one of the reasons that climbing from 5k to 6k would be easy, (or at least was for me) because i realized i could use my team to do this for me, i'll call the rotation and we do it as a team (they don't have to understand why we're doing it, but they'll do it for me regardless), makes life a lot easier.
in that video blitz made for ex, thats something that will not always work or your team will not take enough advnadage of that, if your doing it from the offlaner role, while your carries are probably not paying attention at all ,or they jsut jungling, ( they can be doing that if they are like 3-4k ), but even higher mmr they will jsut not be in the right position of map to do it well if your not making sure you micromanage them.
this alos is an important factor, as i said , sometimes cooperating with your team is not an ez thing, it requires effort to do it. not anyone would try to convince an afk dead brain jungler to make a specifik rotation or play somewhere else in the map.
if you watch any purge game for instance , he usually jsut plays and chill and rarely makes any calls even if theyr team are playing rly bad , he doesnt try at all to micromanage his team mates to make specifk moves which he knows they can be determinat to win the game, cause he is not dedicated or obsessed to gain mmr. that doesnt mean that he cant to do it
this alos is an important factor, as i said , sometimes cooperating with your team is not an ez thing, it requires effort to do it. not anyone would try to convince an afk dead brain jungler to make a specifik rotation or play somewhere else in the map.
if you watch any purge game for instance , he usually jsut plays and chill and rarely makes any calls even if theyr team are playing rly bad , he doesnt try at all to micromanage his team mates to make specifk moves which he knows they can be determinat to win the game, cause he is not dedicated or obsessed to gain mmr. that doesnt mean that he cant to do it
As much of a dick as i sound, i'm actually quite a teamplayer in my own games.
I feel like the biggest thing, other than your behavior, when it comes to teamplay is the bracket itself, people sooner or later will get to a high enough mmr that they'll realize they can't do everything by themselves.
elieve it or not I am more intelligent than the average worm here.
. hmmm , i dont know what to say about that man.
i mean you were not aware about some basic obvious thing like bs being a matchmaking factor, encontrary you were dead sure that it is not, and took you a few months to realise it even the facts were obvious to read, i mean i realised about 6 months before even valve confirmed it with 2 patches only by pure logic XD . im not even sure if im above average inteligence on this forum myself, even it looks like that , its maybe cause people who expose themself here more often are people like jackishit or danish tard and some other kids, you know obviously people with way below average inteligence XD.
when i was elementary fifth grade or sixth grade,i actually become really behaved with myself because converted into christianity
(where everyone on online was like tt ing,was common before on my wc3 server)
ever got one person says "wtf you're 12? ppl on that age saying trash alot and how the heck you can speak english"
well..i live in a third world country so it was surprising for many ppl i met online
my idiocy still the same though all these years,so i think it is not 100% related but people do get smarter with age,since moar experiences/education?
I don't see a shitton of people walk around talking about what they think intelligence is, but I'd weight the ability to relate information and understand the underlying reason for things much more heavily than being a walking dictionary
Maybe that's a personal bias
I don't really think age has much to do with any meaningful definition of intelligence, there's an ungodly amount of dumb people who have decades of life experience and a wealth of knowledge to draw from.
noone says age guarantees intelligence
its very hard to "understand the underlying reason" when ure 8 and the biggest mistery of ur life is whether the pee is stored in the balls or not
getting decades of life experience under ur belt hurt nobody
there's literally no difference. people will try to say there's a difference because people just wanna know they are different from others (and better). but come let's be real. ask any 6k /7k /8k what are they gonna tell you? they're just gonna say something vague like 'game sense'. rofl. sure man.
Cookie suck dicks, i guarantee it.
believe it or not I am more intelligent than the average worm here. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA its too easy to judge people's intelligent nowadays.
People are weird. Blaming someone for using certain tactics to get to the 6k is just dumb.
First of all, I play quite often with Cookie and he literally can play at leat 30-40 heroes outside of his what you call "limited" hero-pool.
The guy can play Meepo, Clinkz, Arc Warden, insanly good Antimage, Jugg even heroes such as Lina, Brood, PL and many more.
I find it insanly disturbing that people actually get triggered so much over the fact someone's better than you.
He's actually right when he said that he's MOST LIKELY more intelligent than the average worm here, coinsidering the fact average youth of the Dotabuff poster is about 13 to 15 years old.
What I don't understand is, how can you blame someone for using certain way of archiving something if it's not cheating? What I find it even more confusing is the fact that someone said: "well he try-harded". No - he didn't try hard actually.(and even if he did, it's non of your fucking buisness) I dare to say I know Cookie probably better than any of you and I'll tell you - he just likes the game and therefore manages his time smart to actually get better at it, and unlike any of you, HELP PEOPLE FOR FREE, u fucking unthankful egoistic pieces of shit.
If actually any of you tried to get good at this game you would understand what Cookie was trying to say, but unlike him, what you want is get into a circlejerk and just act like a fucking uncontained moneys for no apparent reason.
Instead of listening to one another like a fucking retarded animals - use your brain instead for once.
At least I'm fucking aware I suck and I don't try to talk shit to other when it comes to Dota - because I'm fucking aware I don't want to dedicate myself fully and get better at it, because DOTA requieres a fucking dedication.
You fucking retards are just trying to blame someone because you're buthurt and you probably don't even realize you are. Holy fking shit.
Oh, and before you actually start writing with your tiny little hands how years of certain individual have nothing to do with how inteligent he is - it actually does ,because if you're 13 years old you know shit about life, and if you're acting like this, then means your parents actually did an awful fucking job.
Btw, just to clear things up - there's a big difference between being dedicated at something and tryharding at something.
^this guy sucks dick, most probably cookie's
how does this "playing the map" works btw?
guys,i dunno why how does overextending knowledge is bad,i've never even seen cookie as an arrogant too
arrogant=he'll just say you're a trash or etc
dis guy explains too,if you can't accept the explanations just dont follow it,no need the hate lol
Cookie provides us decent explanations, even youtube guides provide similar explanations. Whats wrong with his 1k to 5k mmr guide using cm?
exactly,i don't understand why would you diss someone who's answering stuff to people
man,he's just trying to help
if you think he talk retarded you can argue,but not carrying it up till several threads or untill your death
those are the basics, the overall idea is that: different parts of the map have different values to a lineup, and it actually matters where you make a play (flight, push, gank etc.).
take my explanation as you wish, as there's a lot more to it if you think about it.
One big important part about that statement is the lineup, as i don't see 4-5k players use their teammates like this. While they can press buttons when they see an enemy, they don't know why they're pressing those buttons, which is probably the biggest problem any 4-5k can have - great mechanics, but no strategy.
edit: the lineup itself matters a lot here, a carry clinkz won't care about losing his safelane tower, but an antimage will.
the 2nd most important part is the location itself
What everyone should know is once you make a play, it forces a reaction out of the enemies, that reaction can be anything from counter ganking, ignoring that area, warding or even making a play on the other side.
So when you make that rotation you have to anticipate the reaction to that rotation, and what does it mean.
And this is why the location part is important, i'll give some examples.
If you keep your supports in the safelane trying to gank the offlaner too much what will end up happening is the enemy mid and carry will get farmed enough such that the enemy supports are now free to do as they wish, as they don't have to help their team, so they will now come to annoy your carry instead.
The reason for that is that your team made a play on a part of the map: ganking the offlaner
the enemy made a reaction: bring the supports to the offlane.
So you trying to help get your carry fed by killing offlaner made his life now a living hell 2 minutes into the future as the enemy supports won't stop pounding his ass.
here's another example, same as the example of shoving the wave as an offlaner:
The idea is very simple, all he did is push the wave into the enemy tower
But this will cause a reaction, aka enemy show up to defend/farm under t2, and given that reaction you'll know where the rest of the enemy is. The enemy has to show up and de-push, who shows and how many of them will tell you where the rest are if you understand roles and positions.
But what if they don't show up? No one will just let waves destroy their tower for free, UNLESS they're actually doing something else like smoke, push or rosh. And them not showing up will give you the exact same amount of information to where they are as if they were to show up, then you play accordingly.
The last part is the implications of taking a tower, a tower serves 2 big purposes, providing vision/depush but more importantly a place to teleport. Once you take a tower you will lose the ability to farm some camps around it.
The easiest example would be the t1 safelane tower, it owns the easy and hard camp next to it, and obviously any wave in that area. Once that tower is dead - anyone farming that area has a death wish. As their teammates will not be able to TP and save them.
And one small part is once you do take a tower you want to put vision deeper into the enemy jungle, to see rotations to make sure that you actually own that area. Just taking a tower is simply not enough most of the time, as you need vision deeper into their territory to see the rotations coming from a further place to save someone who was farming where the lost tower is, so for that example of taking t1 safelane tower - you'd be putting a ward on the shrine area or the cliff between t2 mid and t2 safelane tower to see rotations from there.
So overall it can have any consequences possible, what you do and where determines how the game is gonna flow for the next couple of minutes, knowing this in advance gives you a huge advantage over your opponent, but also requires that you understand what your opponent wants and needs to do and how do you compare to that, because you could just as easily end up throwing him all your advantage.
This is the simplest way i can think of explaining it, there's a lot more to it, as it's quite difficult to explain given more complicated scenarios and all 5 heroes doing it actively in an even higher game, and requires quite decent gamesense and map awareness. And you need to build up on the idea on your own.
There's 2 ways you can build this up, 1# is always the best way which is analyzing really high players (top 100) or if you're lazy and want to half ass it then just thinking ''hey if we play in this area of the map, what is gonna happen in the next 30 seconds, and more importantla a couple of minutes down the line".
p.s something i do want to note, this is a team strategy, and one of the reasons that climbing from 5k to 6k would be easy, (or at least was for me) because i realized i could use my team to do this for me, i'll call the rotation and we do it as a team (they don't have to understand why we're doing it, but they'll do it for me regardless), makes life a lot easier.
so long story short 4-5k rotations are random, there's no real purpose to them, from the simplest things like taking a camp or pushing a wave up to the biggest things like taking a teamfight or rosh. They only do it for the sake of doing something with their time, not because those things matter to them in the long run.
nice explanation
it seems some of it i know already,since i read your guide on reddit before
tyvm tyvm tyvm tyvm
Well written essay on how Cookie is actually helpful... from Vertox tho
Cookie coach me i give you donuts i know you want it ;)
wall of nonsense
wall of praising cookie, or typical dotabuff thread
the praise and recognition from a player who had his mmr times two amount of games to learn only to end up in 3k(without any hopes of leaving the bracket in observable furute) tells u volumes about cookies gift of coaching
🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩 bro i did not say you know or not know those things, i mention you as a reference to explain my argument. cause if there is 1 thing that i know for sure about you is that you used the easiest ( maybe most efficent ) way to climb mmr. by playing certain heroes, which people have a lot of strugel to deal with them even in high mmr. all that stuf you explained is not that all of 4k- 5k players dont know, they are a lot of 4-5j who probably knows that stuff and some of 6k who dont know, it doesnt mean shit. if your dedicated to achieve that mmr ( for any reason ) the way you did is the eaiest to do it, cause of all that shit that you explained . prety basic stuff tho .
thats why playing those solo heroes that can ez split the map and force reaction by theyr own is prety much a fre win ,cause people in the oposite side need to coordinate and work as a team to stop, you. it doesnt mean that your better than them, or that they dont know how to deal with you it's just harder for them cause they need theyr team to know they role exactly to make it work.
in that video blitz made for ex, thats something that will not always work or your team will not take enough advnadage of that, if your doing it from the offlaner role, while your carries are probably not paying attention at all ,or they jsut jungling, ( they can be doing that if they are like 3-4k ), but even higher mmr they will jsut not be in the right position of map to do it well if your not making sure you micromanage them.
this alos is an important factor, as i said , sometimes cooperating with your team is not an ez thing, it requires effort to do it. not anyone would try to convince an afk dead brain jungler to make a specifik rotation or play somewhere else in the map.
if you watch any purge game for instance , he usually jsut plays and chill and rarely makes any calls even if theyr team are playing rly bad , he doesnt try at all to micromanage his team mates to make specifk moves which he knows they can be determinat to win the game, cause he is not dedicated or obsessed to gain mmr. that doesnt mean that he cant to do it
i will write long af pharagraphs that most will not read, that will surely make me look smart WeSmart
a person would get a praise if the person deserves it,have you ever got praised because of doing nothing? lol
As much of a dick as i sound, i'm actually quite a teamplayer in my own games.
I feel like the biggest thing, other than your behavior, when it comes to teamplay is the bracket itself, people sooner or later will get to a high enough mmr that they'll realize they can't do everything by themselves.
i mean you were not aware about some basic obvious thing like bs being a matchmaking factor, encontrary you were dead sure that it is not, and took you a few months to realise it even the facts were obvious to read, i mean i realised about 6 months before even valve confirmed it with 2 patches only by pure logic XD . im not even sure if im above average inteligence on this forum myself, even it looks like that , its maybe cause people who expose themself here more often are people like jackishit or danish tard and some other kids, you know obviously people with way below average inteligence XD.
every day we stray further from Gaben....
i for one especially want to stay away from gaben,since he actually make artifact not free
are age and intelligence related :thonk:
when i was elementary fifth grade or sixth grade,i actually become really behaved with myself because converted into christianity
(where everyone on online was like tt ing,was common before on my wc3 server)
ever got one person says "wtf you're 12? ppl on that age saying trash alot and how the heck you can speak english"
well..i live in a third world country so it was surprising for many ppl i met online
my idiocy still the same though all these years,so i think it is not 100% related but people do get smarter with age,since moar experiences/education?
knowledge and intelligence are not the same thing
depends on what u call intelligence
mmr x d d d d
BABY = 1 year old, idiot, cant talk properly, cant even do basic mathematics or doesn't even know what pi is
COOKIES = goes to uni, does uni math, dota professional (if he tried), very smart, very knowledgable
baby=can learn finnish fluently in a handful of years while also learning other languages and developing basic motor control simultaneously
cookerz=would struggle to speak finnish fluently after a multi year immersion course that is his primary study with a fully developed brain and body
if intelligence = raw learning ability no shit a fetus is the megamind here
ye and u know what tops all of that? m,e
i’m just saying that conflating knowledge and intelligence is a bad idea
i pretty sure no one actually thinks that, its just that adults are just more intelligent in the sense most people put into this word
no one remotely intelligent that is
I don't see a shitton of people walk around talking about what they think intelligence is, but I'd weight the ability to relate information and understand the underlying reason for things much more heavily than being a walking dictionary
Maybe that's a personal bias
I don't really think age has much to do with any meaningful definition of intelligence, there's an ungodly amount of dumb people who have decades of life experience and a wealth of knowledge to draw from.
maybe the thing is nobody rly cares about intelligence except ppl who are dumb (like boobies :DDD roastedxD)
and drumpf
xdd
noone says age guarantees intelligence
its very hard to "understand the underlying reason" when ure 8 and the biggest mistery of ur life is whether the pee is stored in the balls or not
getting decades of life experience under ur belt hurt nobody
is it not?
von neumann could divide two eight digit numbers in his head when he was 6
he's more intelligent as an adult, surely. I doubt he'd match up poorly to most adults though
yeah but von neumann isnt human, hes a god
id think you would only have to hold it in once to realize exactly where ur piss is stored
its not ur balls that are hurting
wat is knowledge,wat is intelligence lol
Age doesnt corellate with intelligence, look at the cancers in dota, they keep doing incomprehensible stuff
there's literally no difference. people will try to say there's a difference because people just wanna know they are different from others (and better). but come let's be real. ask any 6k /7k /8k what are they gonna tell you? they're just gonna say something vague like 'game sense'. rofl. sure man.
they don'teven know why they're supposedly 'better'