Because strength heroes have more HP, losing a set percentage of their HP means they lose more HP. If you have an Agi carry with 1000 HP and a strength core with 2000 HP, a full sunray would do 400 dmg to the agi carry and 800 damage to the strength core. This basically removes the only advantage strength heroes have: their larger HP pools.
Most heroes can easily do 400 damage in a short time (one nuke + a couple of autoattacks) Very few can do 800 damage in the same time. Thus phoenix hurts strength heroes more then other heroes would and so counters strength heroes.
Its also worth noting that most strength heroes are melee and attack slower then agi heroes and so are worse at killing the supernova too.
Also if you want to look at the extreme example of a Pudge with 5000 HP then Phoenix would laser away 2000 HP in one Sunray. :P
Yo, imagine here. If you right click attack fat pudge which have 9k hp and sniper with 1.5k hp, I think you know which one easier to die. But if you full sunray that fat pudge, assume it will reduce 60% of pudge health, do the math you deal 5.4k dmg on pudge in 6 second which is more effective than you just right click attack him.
Okay that makes sense. But my question was beyond that. Say you have on your hands a Sven and a Gyrocopter. Gyro has 2k HP while sven has 3k. Sunray would bring gyro to 1200 HP while Sven to 1800. While it is true that it deals more damage to the Sven in terms of raw HP, is it not true that both the carries are down to 60% of their max HP? Why is that worse for Sven than for Gyro?
Rascar , its because of the amount of actual damage being done is higher to str heroes, nothing more to it.
While it is true that it deals more damage to the Sven in terms of raw HP, is it not true that both the carries are down to 60% of their max HP
did you just say that there's no difference between someone being on 1200 hp and being on 1800 hp?
Its not only about the sunray. Str heroes are also usually melee and have low attack speeds so they will suffer trying to do anything against firebirds and supernova.
Arin: If you say being on 1200 hp is worse, then you would be implying phoenix is better vs an agi carry. On the other hand, I do not see how being on 1800 hp can be worse than on 1200.
You do realize that bringing Sven to half HP is way harder than bringing smth like Weaver to half HP?
Everyone with damage that does a percent of the target's max HP is a strength counter. Things like Sunray and Reapers Scythe do more damage to heroes with large HP Pools (strength Heroes) then heroes with smaller hp pools (Agi/Int heroes).
Put it this way. Sunray costs 100 mana regardless of who you target. If you target an agi hero and do 1200 damage then you do 12 damage per mana spent. If you target a strength hero and do 1800 damage then it equates to 18 damage per mana. Targeting the strength hero is obviously more effective use of your mana and so sunray can be considered to counter strength heroes.
except sun ray gets stronger the longer it is on someone, so really you gotta cook the hell outta someone for a long time before you do much.
Math OP, math. Math is everything. Like I said b4, right click attack on sniper until died is faster than you right click attack on fat pudge. Like MAverick said, every percent of the target's max HP is a strength hero counter. Of course sunray will reduce the same amount of HP bar on both agi and str hero but right click attack still can kill agi hero faster than sunray do but for str hero is vice versa.
If u look at it difrently u see that the only way to reduse pure dmg is health pool so str heros counter pure dmg. Makes sence right?
Hero with more health pool will take less dmg from pure and magic dmg
I read somewhere that str counters int while int counters agi and agi counters str (i know its not true for all)
agility heroes hav more armor so its tough to bring the remaining 40% hp down whereas its comparitively ez on a low armor strength carry
Isaiah, yes strength heroes are more effective against pure damage when its a fixed value. A 300 pure damage nuke will do less of the strength hero's HP Pool, this is true. However a Pure damage nuke that increases in damage as the target has more HP will do more damage to Strength Heroes then Agi or Int Heroes. Therefore its more effective to use it on Strength Heroes.
the more raw hp a hero has, the more relatively efficient it is to use sunray on that hero
Pure damage doesnt necessarily counter str, flat dmg output through spells do not scale very well against fast scaling hp on str heroes. For instance you can nuke down an axe player real quick at level 6 as lina however late game when axe has over 2.5k hp you would have to cast like 10 spells and ulti which you would be dead before finishing. The best way to counter strength heroes are pure dmg spells that deal dmg based off of targets max hp and sometimes current.
"Percentage based". necro heartstopper aura, necro reaper's scythe, Zeus' static field, phoenix sunray, etc scales into late game and theoretically hurt more because enemy heroes will have higher hp. A fixed amount of damage will eventually fall down into the late game while percentage based, hurt more the more hp they got (as in more damage dealt). So str heroes that have naturally big chunk of hp will feel more damage compared to less hp ones.
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Why is it being said that Phoenix counters strength heroes? The way I see it is that Sunray does pure damage, and it is percentage based, so it would hurt all heroes equally, right? I mean ofcourse the damage dealt would be different, but for example it would bring both an agi carry and strength carry to roughly 60% of their health if they eat a full level 4 Sunray. Why is that worse for strength carries?